Can you guys name some early draft picks who were raw when drafted and panned out?

Even thought he wasn't drafted early,Paul Milsap comes to mind. Didn't have a jumper, didn't really have post moves and was mainly an energy guy off the bench early in his career in Utah but with his work ethic he is now a consistent player and might be a starter. I wouldnt know, I dont care what happens to Utah (as long as its not good).

 

He was a nice passer and a nice shooter but he was unable to put any of it together. I do not know what you define as raw but to me it isn't just athleticism. It is being able to put your skills to together. Ming's first 20 games were horrible. I think how well he blossomed was amazing.

Chandler has a role and plays it perfectly. He isn't an offensive threat with the ball in his hands; however, he is a good example to me because he could have very well ended up just being long and athletic without any purpose like Thabeet. That is what makes him NOT raw right now. Thabeet is raw. Chandler is a refined center with definite skills.

 

Bizarro World Shane Battier.

 

OK, then, by your definition, Nowitzki was raw. In fact, anybody who doesn't play well their first year is raw. Yao had to adjust to the speed of the game, but he had skills. Raw, to me, is athleticism or size without skills. NOBODY who is RAW shoots 81% from the FT line their rookie year.

 

I read through your whole post a little slower. I believe we both just define "raw" differently.

As far as Chandler goes, I see where you're coming from with defense, but on the offense end, which I think would be considered requiring more skills, Chandler is still undeveloped. Just looking at his HoopsData shot location %'s, shows this. The guy doesn't shoot away from the basket at all....

 

Kobe Bryant is the most obvious.

 

There is a difference between being "raw" and being "productive". Can a player be raw and be productive at the same time? Absolutely. GMs and team personnel would rather draft someone with a well rounded, polished game than someone who you have to teach the game at the pro level.

However, when it comes to basketball rawness, it typically equates to skill level (ball handling skills, shooting, free throws, post-up game, isolation, passing skills, etc) to which Hakeem was able to refine over time. Most of the time, if you have someone starting to learn the game, say a soccer goalie transitioning to basketball or any kind of sport for that matter, one would not be as fluid as compared to someone who's been playing the sport since ages 8, 9, or 10. Remember, Akeem first picked up the game at age 15 and 2-3 years later he was at the UH campus. Therefore he was still growing physically and as basketball player.

Also, physical attributes cant be confused with court productivity. Meaning, even though Akeem didn't have the offensive skills then, the physical tools that were a foundation to his success were vital to his game. It includes his motor, athletism, length, physicality, speed, agility, jumping ability. It enabled him to block shots, defend, rebound, tip dunks, and affect the game in various ways. Akeem's work ethic demonstrated his ability to develop his basketball skills with his physical tools. Before, he could only dunk using his jumping ability. Years later he can spin, turn around and shoot a fade-away - also known as his Dreamshake. He was so raw that before he was a horrific free throw shooter. Over time he became a respectable to good free throw shooter at a 70%-80% clip and even developed a jumpshot from 15-18 feet. He was also labeled as a blackhole, constantly forcing shots over triple teams. But as he developed the recognition skills of when to pass and trust his teammates, he was able to average 3 assists in a season and even attain a quadruple-double, assist being one of the statistics. He was so raw that his idea of dribbling is slapping the ball to the ground. Now he can handle the ball if its one to 3 dribbles, but he would not be able to put the ball behind his back, between his legs and iso at the top of the three point line. There's still a limitation but we can all see the progress from someone who was imposing his presence physically than someone who is dominating the game physically, with finesse and with skill depending on the situation.

So in some ways, this actually shows the uniqueness and greatness of Hakeem that in spite of his rawness, he was not only productive, but dominated the game in ways defensively that he was merely relying on athletic prowess. Scouts were drooling over his potential because, as he was learning the game, as you said he became the best big man in his class, even surpassing Jordan as the first pick of the 84 draft.

Now history would show that being the best or one of the best big man in college does not guarantee an induction to the Hall of Fame. If that were the case, we would put Pervis Ellison, Olowakandi, Sam Bowie, Eddie Curry, Thabeet, Felton Spencer, Shawn Bradley, Eric Montross and Lorenzen Wright in the Hall. Selecting Drummond and Melo would have been a sure thing and the drafting for big men becomes an exact science. I think by these standards, the OPs implication of rawness defines moreso on pure athletic ability than basketball skills to which I nominate the Dream.

 

Has anyone said Shawn Kemp? I know 17th isn't that high, but he was basically a high schooler, and this was way before KG.

Baron Davis needed a lot of work when he first came into the league.

When it comes to unpolished big men, Ewing's probably a better example than Akeem. A lot of people thought that his offense was way ahead of his defense when he was drafted.

Rudy Gay would qualify, I guess.

 

anyone who says Akeem, did not watch him dismantle the defending champion LA Lakers in his 2nd yr in the league.

The Rockets won four games in a row. Pat Riley said after game four, "We didn't know his was this good. We have to figure out how to stop him."

If you don't think Akeem (in his rookie season) had the best baseline turnaround jumper for any center in 1985, well he damn sure did in 1986. So much for it taking him long to produce an unstoppable shot.

Can someone please show the vid of Akeem against the Celtics in the finals. Too bad there isn't a vid of him destroying the Lakers in 86

 

exactly. When you are putting up numbers in your rookie year that would make you the best center in the league today, and doing it against greater competition at your position, then I do not consider you to have met the criteria in the op.

 

Skilled? Yes. Stupid? No. Just makes silly mistakes like most young players do. Poor attitude? Ok. He is immature and needs to grow up. Fat? WTF are you watching. Fat is Eddy Curry and Oliver Miller.

 

NBA standards are different. Curry was fat by normal human standards. By NBA standards, he was a walking hotdog.

And when you make a silly mistake after a silly mistake on the court and off, you get called stupid. He's far from most young players.

 

Dwight Howard was so raw when he was drafted that there was debate between him and Emeka Okafor. It's obvious how much he developed since then.

 

indeed. although to be fair, Emeka kind of disappointed. He was supposed to be a more all around version of Big Ben and a shot blocking king.
He kind of seemed on his way for a while, but never really added anything to his game.

 

He's not asking for scale, he was asking about really raw as in unskilled guy. Saying WB was unskilled is just ridiculous, WB was already able to handle the ball and drive it to the hole from his first year. If you want an unskilled guard you need to think of guys like Luther Head or Steve Novak without the shooting when they came into the league.

So really, and if look at his examples, the OP was referring more to big men projects who never panned out than anything else. I think he makes a great point though, Tyson Chandler and DH come to mind, but Chandler had even higher expectations than what he got (next KG?), while DH and Bynum were one of the few guys who reached their potential. I think Derrick Favors is also another guy well on his way, he'll blow up in 2-3 years. But yeah, the OP is right, the chances of your project realizing his potential is really small and IMHO not worth it, no wonder DM sticks with the 6'8 PF.

 

1. What exactly is a walking hot dog? Are you trying to say Curry was in shape by NBA standards?? Here let me show you:



Let me show you Oliver Miller



Here is Demarcus last season



Not the leanest but nowhere near "fat"

2. Please name an off court issue since he's had since being in the NBA. Has he gotten in trouble with the law at all? Drugs? Raped a girl?

 

kevin garnett was pretty raw that first year.

 

I was at Garnett's McDonalds All-American game in St. Louis. Garnett was there with Stephon Marbury and, if you can believe it, Ron Mercer being the two guys getting the most hype.

Garnett tore it up at that game. He was by far the most impressive. He was taking guys off the dribble and hitting threes. He had a ****-ton of skills. He may not have shown them his first year in Minnesota, but they were there. He was very, very skilled when he entered the NBA.

In fact, anybody who played in a McDonald's game or any of the other high school all-star games should be disqualified from this list. To get on one of those, you have to have shown that you can play the game.

I remember seeing Shaq at a high school all-star game at Rice. LaBradford Smith was there, as was Larry Johnson with the biggest, most 1980's-ish Jerry Curl you've ever seen. I think it was an all-Texas all star game. Shaq grabbed a rebound and went coast to coast. It was pretty clear he had a feel for basketball, even if he didn't take a shot from more than a foot away.

 

Russell Westbrook most recently

 

to the opposite.

off-court = everything that's not in-game plays.