Sports Illustrated: Rockets offer to Magic was much lower than reported

OK, Mr. Naive Simpleton.

It's not out of left field at all - there have been reports of this all along. Here's a few, from our own cyberx, who works in the agent community:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=7048264

 

So, you're saying that it's more likely that there were some back alley, closed office dealings in which someone threatened to blackball someone, then let's say.... DeVos pulling the trigger and Hennigan being a patsy...?

It's rhetoric like this that makes me cringe with discuss of what has become of our society...

Baseless, mindless dribble....reaching for some sort of justification to appease there inner anger caused by lack of understanding.

 

Where's your source that they didn't do that to orlando. Realistic there is a lot of money to be made and a lot of politics us as fans just for know about. with money comes corruption. All sports have it , u see it every week in boxing. Why not basketball , why not with one of the best players in the game. Basically my OPINION comes down to , the rockets had a better package, a new gm just basically strewed his team with this trade , but why would he ?Why take the lesser of the 2 packages , to make Howard happy ? Nope , something pushed this trade thru and I don't think it was a trade on the up and up

 

Ahhh, I get it, you're one of those, "if it's one the internet, it must be true" types....

Dude, unplug, go play outside, get a hobbie, read a book... because that's not a source.

And I'd dare you to challenge Morey with the questions, "Do you think an agent could blackball you into making clients not sign with your team? And if so, would you give in to such pressures?"

 

Can you not read? I mentioned monkey business from DeVos/Martins as a distinct possibility as well.

It's rhetoric like this that makes me cringe... simply accepting an obvious injustice at face value because you're too naive to do a little critical thinking and analysis.

 

Or maybe the Magic figured that Afflalo is better than Kevin Martin.

 

These constant insults are making u look stupid and sound like a child.

 

He was verified by respected and known posters in this community.

Matt Jackson asked Morey a variation of that question in a recent 790 interview. Daryl basically said no comment. He definitely didn't deny. (He'll never confirm on the record, for obvious reasons.)

I don't know why you're insisting on being naive about this. I've talked to pro-league executives who have told me MUCH wilder stories (off the record) than this scenario about threats from agents. Now, whether the agents would follow through on it and how many GMs would buy it - that's another story. But these threats absolutely get made on a regular basis, and it's up to each individual management team to evaluate the merits. It's part of modern sports.

 

While such an viewpoint may or may not be more accurate than another's, the more important question is this:

Is Arron Afflalo for four years at a total of $31.2 million in remaining salary (including a nearly $8 million player option in his final year) significantly more valuable than Kevin Martin for only one year at $12.4 million plus the subsequent salary cap flexibility granted to the organization when his contract comes off the books (including the flexibility to re-sign Martin to a more cap-friendly deal if desirable)?

Frankly, I would take the Martin contract over the Afflalo contract, especially in the age of the new CBA. But apparently Rob Hennigan (or, perhaps more accurately, Alex Martins) see it differently than I do.

 

Article doesn't help me figure out what the Magic were thinking. Even if the Rockets were 'only' offering the Toronto and Dallas picks and forgetting about Lamb, Martin, etc), that's still better than what they got. So, it still seems to me they picked the worst deal on the table. What's worse, the Nets offer and what Houston would have given them back at the draft was better than what they got by a mile. So, they lost value by delaying, and then lost again by not taking the best offer available. Since I don't believe the agent conspiracy theory, I don't know what to believe.

 

Supporting TheCat, it was widely reported that agents played a very strong role in the lockout negotiations, using groups of clients as blocs to influence the outcome. So why wouldn't they try to exert these types of pressures now that the lockout is over? Think about it from the agent's perspective. Your client is paying you to help him end up where he wants, and it's in your interest to make sure he can re-sign with his favored team to a max deal. So if you didn't resort to these tricks, you wouldn't be doing your job.

This is not a conspiracy theory at all. It's pretty much the only plausible explanation for why Orlando didn't take the Houston offer. Orlando must have promised Dwight that they would help him get to his preferred destination in return for signing the 1-year extension. Dwight gets more money and Orlando gets some trade value back. There was likely a handshake deal on this between Fegan and DeVos.

The only other possibility is that Dwight really did intend to play another year for Orlando. But that is extremely hard to believe since 1) he changed his mind so fast, and 2) playing another year for Orlando was completely against the interests of Fegan. Dwight is not a smart guy, and Fegan would have talked him out of this in 10 seconds.

 

LOL, why would I have to prove or disprove such a redicules notion?

I think what you might be looking for here is "spite."

Being in my field you always have techs & engineers looking for the most complicated, conveluted, off the wall reasoning and they have to be reminded to as the saying goes "keep it simple stupid" (no offense, its a saying).

I get that there are shady deals win the NBA and any other sports. But without proof, don't go grasping for straws trying to make sense of it.

By definition, LA should have never gotten O'Neal way back when. The same off season, the Rockets had just won their second title, Barkley was a free agent and Rockets made an offer and he accepted. We already had Hakeem, Drexler, Cassell, Horry...etc. David Stern blocked the deal siting that Houston must have contact Barkley before the moratorium deadline for FAs, ended. We later made a trade that included key pieces, such as Cassell and Horry, to our success. However, in that same off season, O'Neal was filmed having lunch with Jerry West in LA before the moratorium deadline ended. So yes, I do believe that it happens.

You could make a case that Stern knows, as long as he has LA and NY in some kind of hunt, he’s making money, so promises could have been made to Orlando to deal with LA so that can compete now…. See I can do it too, doesn’t make it true.

Either way, the trade didn't go down for our Rockets, oh well.

 

fair enough, but they still aren't stars by any stretch of imagination.

And i think you may be overvaluing all these players a tad. You could find guys like these in other drafts as well. e.g., just looking at 2005 draft, there's Ersan Ilyasova and Marcin Gortat, 2nd round picks, both better all around players than some of those you mention.
But I don't know that these are 'stars' either.

hehe. i definitely like the work you put in. But i don't think the list is relevant in this particular case.
I mean, it does show that #12 > #17 or #22, which we all know.

But if you are Orlando, how many later picks or prospects do you sacrifice just to get that #12 pick? Is it better than a solid mid round prospect and a late pick? Two late picks? Three?
I think if you took that list straightforwardly, you'd be proving the opposite.

You can always draft a star, even in the 2nd round.
But that chance is incomparable with having a top 5 pick. At top 5, you expect an All Star or at least a starter for the next 10 decade; if it doesn't happen, we all call that guy a bust.

In later lottery, you can't reasonably expect to get a star.
That would be a huge steal.
Most of the guys at that spot are lesser rotation guys to starters with a very rare star.

The gap between #5 and early teens in most years is just much bigger than between early teens and early 20s.

so when you are offered a potential lotto pick... from a team (Toronto) that's been going over its head this summer because it seems to prefer mediocrity...
It's very nice, but it's not a "woooow, we will draft Kobe Bryant there, or at least Roy Hibbert if it's a weaker draft".
If this was a Charlotte pick, it would be different. But now, it's a very nice asset, but Houston fans expect to beat any offer with that pick. It's good, not THAT good.

 

It's not complicated when you think about it from the agent's perspective. The key point is when Dwight signed the one-year extension. No agent would let his client re-up like that just because he was being emo. He would weigh the pros and cons.

By that point, it was already clear that Howard did not want to stay in Orlando, so the only reason to sign the contract is to gain the supermax offer after a trade. But the supermax offer is useless unless you are traded to a team you want. Hence ORL must have told the agent that they would try to trade him to a preferred team, and they were too scared to go back on this even though HOU made a better offer.

 

Ok, you believe what you'd like to believe, and I will believe what I'd like to believe and we will agree to disagree.

Either way, we didn't get to trade for Dwight. And if Morey only offered what is now being reported (which was still better than the deal they recieved), great, good for Morey. Cause like you and I debated in the past, I wouldn't give up much for the risk that comes with DH.

So I am content withy moving forward. One!

 

IF, and mind you I am only saying if, that would be the case, then Hennigan, DeVos and the whole organization is screwed, because IF it did go down that way, then it sets a dangerous precedent. And Orlando is screwed anyway, because players and agents now know you can walk over Orlando and they will buckle.

 

Yes, it does set a very bad precedent. I believe this is why JVG and Kelly Dwyer said that ORL fans should consider giving up being fans of their team.

You're right, we don't know for sure. But every other explanation depends on not only Dwight being an idiot, but also his agent being an idiot. However, we know that his agent spent a year trying to force Howard to the Nets and then another month trying to force him to the Lakers. That doesn't sound like the behavior of someone who is an idiot.

 

You need read the article, not just the title, which is misleading. The offer was for Bynum. It was obvious when the Lakers were involved, there was no chance Howard would come to Houston. I am sure Morey's offer for Howard was better. But like many posters pointed out, even this "lower offer" was better than what Magics got. Hennigan is an idiot.

 

certainly. but is it better than a solid mid round prospect AND a late pick or even two? because that's how these deals compare in this "Orlando side of the story" article.
whether the article is correct or not, that's another question.

if they refused the other deal that's mentioned in the article, the one based on "Houston sources", then that seems pretty silly.
BUT if the real deal was the one coming from "Orlando sources", then it's a fairly crappy offer.

re Toronto, we do seem to disagree.
They ended up at #8 last year despite Bargnani injuries, trying to tank (they shut down Bargnani towards the end, gave away Barbosa for cap), as well as hiring a completely different type of coach and having no full camp.
They've only upgraded since. I think 8-14 is the range for that pick, with 8 meaning a disaster of a season from their point of view.
IMO, there's a better chance of them making the playoffs than it being #5.