Thats the point. You are speaking as if the CFL is on par with the NFL. The rejects of the NFL play in the CFL. Then, after developing, they MAY get an opportunity to play in the NFL. No player coming out of a U.S. university chooses to play in the CFL over the NFL. They go to the CFL because they really dont have many other options. Sure, there may be very few cases where a player gets drafted by an NFL team then decides to play in the CFL. However, they are few and far between. Im not saying that the CFL is for scrubs, but they are no where near the playing field of the NFL.
LOL@the CFL I'm sorry, but the CFL is inferior in every single facet. It's ridiculous to even compare the two leagues. For the majority...it sure is.
I won’t even bother responding to Ric. He’s not even answering what I said. He’s making it up as he goes. Please reread. The main point I was making to Ric is that the CFL is a different game. Is an apple on par with an Orange? Nonsense. If you are talking about the players, there is a percentage say 20% would could play and be stars in either league. Most of these guys are, or obvious reasons, in the NFL. (But not all. When a guy like Garcia immediately becomes a 3 time Pro-Bowler you have to admit that some of the top players at any given time are north of the boarder). Many NFLers couldn’t play in the CFL, not because they aren’t good, but because they aren’t suited for the CFL game. Again it’s DIFFERENT. Is it sinking in yet? On a second topic, why are you guys so insecure about the NFL? It’s a good game and a good league. Why all this “where the best in the whole entire world. Even better than people who are playing a different game!” stuff. Sounds a little desperate to me.
No insecurities dude. Its just the truth. The best players in the world aim for the NFL. The same goes for the NBA, MLB, and NHL.
i answered you, point for point, even taking the time to discuss the man who will personally redefine the wide receiver position, marc boerighter. in addition, i addressed your contention that tom cousineau is among several players who chose the CFL over the NFL; your contention that players choose to stay in an inferior league earning less money because they enjoy it; your contention that the NFL ignores the CFL and that that's why none of their players ever move south of the border; and lastly, your contention that the CFL isn't inferior. i think what you mean is that i failed to answer in a way that granted any of your arguments legitimacy, because, frankly, they had none. the CFL, like the AFL and the WLAF, is what it is: a depot for players who, for whatever reason, aren't good enough to make it in the NFL, and to argue any of them, in any of the three leagues, would rather play football is any league over the NFL is so ridiculous, i'm at a loss i'm having to discuss it. no, it's not. the arena league is a different game, why aren't you stumping for it? here's the bottom line: garcia is the exception; dave dickson is the norm. garcia legitimitized the CFL about as much as tommy maddox legitimized the XFL and kurt warner legitimized the AFL. remember how there was a rush to find the next warner after 1999, as scouts went scurrying through the AFL? and it's turned up how many kurt warners? (answer, btw, is zero) as the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day. sure, the CFL has talent, and yes, some of it could migrate south and have huge careers in the NFL. doesn't prove the game's as good. i mean, the NFL has its fair share of D2 stars... does that mean D2 programs are on par with D1 programs? of course not. once again, when players, good players with huge futures in the NFL, leave to go north, we can talk about the CFL. when the grey cup rights sell for hundreds of millions of dollars and advertisers line up to pay millions to show off their products during the game, we can talk. when the CFL expands, rather than contracts, we can talk. etc., etc., etc. and i'm still waiting for you to outline the terms of our bet, that whatever his name is will be a starter by midseason with the texans. talk about not answering...
Players in the NBA, MLB and NHL want to play in the NFL?! That’s a little more extreme than comparing the CFL and the NFL, but not as much as some of you clearly think. Y’all should really learn something about the CFL before you slag it. Ric, I’ll waste my breath on you one more time and then quit because it’s clearly a waste of time. Yes. If a player is making here what they would make in their first contract in the NFL they USUALLY stay. Those players are established here and often have other things on the go. The reason to go to the NFL is the $$$, nothing else. Now you’re changing your story. Not starting to squirm a bit are you Ric? You said, “not one player, with one small, notable exception, has ever been drafted by the NFL but thought better of it and headed north. it never, ever happens, and there's a reason. I gave you 2 right off the top of my head, including a 1st overall, so now you change your story. You’re beaten but instead of taking it graciously you try to squirm your way out the back door. Nice. (This is why I won’t be responding to you after this. You’ll just change your story again.) Ismail is still playing in the NFL. JC Watts is another example you’ve probably heard of, and there are more. But you don’t have any real concern for facts do you? You don’t think I can find and article where some sports writer takes a dig at the No Fun League? Its fat linemen, its pylon QBs, its stone handed TEs, the racism, the politics, etc. etc. etc.? Now I’m understanding you Ric. You are a fan of the vacuous hype that surrounds the NFL. You’re not really a football fan at all. No Ric. They love it here because they love it here. I’m sorry this makes you so insecure. Notice that I mentioned players who are currently playing in the NFL or who retired from the NFL. They have no reason to plug the CFL unless they genuinely enjoyed it. Again you ignored what I said and made up your own conversation. Flutie, who was 37 and past his prime at the time, went to the NFL and became a Pro-Bowl QB. If you have no respect for that then, again, you are not a real football fan and we have no common ground with which to discuss football. The fact that no NFL team would give him a look supports my point that the ignorance and arrogance of the NFL establishment prevented many players from getting deserved shots at NFL $$$. That is changing though. If you paid attention to the NFL this year Ric you would know that they’re very high on Borighter in KC. They are talking about him as a starter next year, this on a team with Morton and Kennison. And Borigter was an example of what I think Armstrong will do in his first year. I didn’t say anything about him being an all-star right away, but yet again Ric you are changing things and just making this stuff up to suit your purposes. How do you think NFL TEs would do in the CFL? Did you know CFL teams don’t use TEs? I didn’t think so. You completely clueless about the CFL aren’t you? You run you mouth like a fool about a league you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about. Nice. You should have a second look at your league and its history. Why do you think Moon was up here for 5 years? Your league is run by an old boys club that has MANY prejudices. They only change in the face of overwhelming pressure. When did the NFL get its first black coach? Art Shell, wasn’t it? And how many are there now? Hmmm… Is the NFL really all about winning? With respect to the CFL, now that guys like Flutie and Garcia have walked in and become immediate Pro-Bowlers, they have to pay more attention. And Armstrong is one player who deserves and will benefit from that attention. Sorry you don’t like him. He’s going to be a good player for you. Given what you’ve said Ric, I do believe that you think the CFL and NFL games are the same. But they aren’t. Why am I trying to discuss the CFL with someone who clearly knows nothing about the game and won’t do even the most minimal research to find out? :huh: I don’t know, but I won’t be for long. Garcia and Flutie are examples of CFL QBs who could have done well, and did well in the NFL. Dickenson, (mobile, accurate, very very smart, finds his 3rd and 4th option, BUT is 5’10” 180 lbs. and not a great athlete) is an example of a player whose game is better suited to the CFL. (But then you’ve just told me you don’t know the difference, so you won’t understand this). He gave the NFL a shot ($$$) but didn’t get a shot, even though many in SD thought he played as well or better than Brees and Flutie. He’ll come back and likely do very well in a league that’s better suited to his game. Again you’re missing point. The two games are significantly different. It would make no sense for someone who has NFL specific game to come to the CFL, money issues aside. Some players could play in both leagues and some couldn’t. Most of your linemen would be pylons on a bigger field, only waving at backs like Avery as he flies by them. John Avery wouldn’t have the room to run and would get killed in the NFL. He may be able to play special teams in the NFL, but he wouldn’t be the star he is in the CFL game. This is why he has said that he wants to stay, but will reluctantly go to the NFL for the $$$ if he gets a good enough offer. Different games, different players and different circumstances. Of the 15-20% who could not only play, but also star, in either league, most (but not all) are in the NFL. Why? Primarily because the money difference between the stars in both leagues is huge. Here a top player can make $200,000 to $250,000 US, while in the NFL it’s in the millions. Which would you choose? If you are judging the football by how much American advertisers spend on it then we are talking about different things. Are you seriously suggesting that American advertisers would spend that much on a Canadian game? And more people watch Jerry Springer than Biography. What does that prove? It may actually show the difference in our perspectives though.. I’m a football fan, and you are a fan of hype, empty hype. The bet will be for bragging rights. I live in Calgary, so there’s not much else it could be for. It’s on your reputation, you credibility as an evaluator of football talent. On your ability to see past the hype to the real football abilities of the player. I said he’ll be a starter by year’s end, and you said he’d be cut. That leaves middle ground, but that doesn’t matter. It’s clear what you think of him based on no knowledge of him or the league he’s coming from, and it’s clear what I think of him. We’ll see who’s the real football fan and who is the pretender.
Do you really believe that is what Ric meant? Don't you think he meant that the best basketball players aspire to the NBA, baseball players to MLB and hockey players to the NHL? You don't do your argument any good by making ridiculous assumptions such as that.
I'm a Texan; something that---like most Texans---I'm pretty darn proud of. If I played football in College (which I didn't), and I was drafted by the NFL, I'd have wanted to play for the Oilers (who were still in Houston when I should have been graduating). If not the Oilers, then I'd want to play for some NFL team. In fact, looking back, I'd have probably taken a pay cut to stay in the states and play for the NFL. I would not have wanted to go to Canada and play in the CFL. In fact, I'd be just like Ric claims I'd be. All that being said, I've since visited several cities in Canada. If I couldn't have been drafted by the NFL, but the CFL would have taken me....or if money was really important and the CFL was offering more.....or if for whatever reason....I ended up in the CFL, I can guaran--f'in-tee you that I'd do whatever possible to stay in Canada. In fact, I'd act just like Grizzled says people act. As I've gotten older, my definition of "quality of life" has changed somewhat. Actually, it hasn't really changed....it's just that I've grown to accept what is important to me over what society tells me should be important. I hate taxes, yet paying high taxes seems like such a small price to pay to live up there. It's THAT nice. Anyway, I'd be careful about arguing this one in absolutes. Different people want different things.
uh, yeah, ok.... nothing else, right... it's the money. uh-huh, yeah.... i mean, what moron would want to play on network television every week in front family and friends when they can travel out of the country of their birth and make it big in a league with 9 teams? and really, what's so great about monday night football, anyway? it's only been a national instituition for 31 years; canada's thursday night version is much more enticing, i'm sure, what with it's UPN-size viewership. and let's be perfectly honest: playing in the super bowl while a billion people watched is just too much pressure -- why put yourself through that when you can play in the grey cup and be watched by literally hundreds. as pointed out, the "one notable exception" which i referenced, was, is and has always been ismail. and again, i'll ask, how's he doing in the CFL these days? has he settled for "first-year NFL contract money" and found the league to his liking? what's that, he's in the NFL? but wait, you said players loved to play and stay in the CFL, didn't you? as for cousineau, he does nothing but underscore my point. let's examine: did he "think better of the NFL" and head north instead? nope. according to the article, he went to the CFL because it was the only option available to him. his preference was to play in the NFL. that he didn't disappointed him. here's his quote, verbatim: "It was the most disappointing thing about my NFL career." once there, did cousineau find the CFL rewarding? well, he stayed all of four years, years termed an "exile." and then he went... where? did he stay in the CFL, as you claim many players do? nope, remarkably, he went to the NFL. imagine that... wonder why? so even granting you ismail, which i did initially, you found one top player who went to the CFL over the NFL and it was only because he couldn't work out a deal with the NFL team that drafted him and it all happened 23 years ago. and both players eventually.... came to the NFL. let me ask ya a quick question; did flutie go straight from BC to the CFL? the answer: no. he bumped around the NFL for five years, eventually winding up on NE's scab team in '87. plenty of teams gave him a look. that he came back is a great story; so is maddox, so is warner, both of whom bounced around the NFL, found success in inferior leagues, and then scored in the NFL. so, by all means, let's start singing the praises of those leagues, too. uhm... yeah, ok, please send links that support your assertion he's being groomed to start next year. and no, you didn't say armstrong would be an all-star, but did say this: "I bet Armstrong will be a starter for you by mid to end of next season." and this: "As far as how good he is, he is definitely NOT just like some 6th round pick." implying that he's, in fact, better than a sixth round pick... even though he went undrafted when he came out of college, no? you know what they say about assumptions... having been an oiler fan during the moon/hugh campbell courtship, i actually do know quite a bit about the CFL. i don't follow it with any passion, but i'm not ignorant to its quirks, either. good god, you're calling me desperate? what in god's name does the NFL's hiring policy have to do with this? and yes, moon was the victim of prejucided thinking when he came out of college... 23 years ago. fyi, in the year 2003, black QBs are being drafted each and every year. and you can shove flutie and garcia down my throat as often as you like; they still remain the exceptions. dave dickson and ben sankey are the norms. the CFL has been around for, what, nearly 30 years? we can almost literally count the # of players who have had garcia-like migrations on two hands... in fact, i think maybe we can. and it's not because teams ignore the CFL. no, i get it. i know the game is different; i know some players are better suited to the CFL, mainly those with size issues, because the wider field opens the game up considerably. this was all an issue when moon was being courted. but my point is that the difference is irrelevant. it's the talent level i'm talking about. the CFL is made up of guys who couldn't make it in the NFL. that some are better suited to the CFL doesn't make the league an equal. it's merely further proof the CFL is not equal to the NFL; if it were, why is it contracting? why has interest in it waned? used to be on ESPN, is it anymore? i don't even think they broadcast the grey cup. funny.... they DO broadcast the NFL. just to clarify, i said he'd have trouble making the team, but, ok, i'm game. and you know what? i hope i'm wrong. i'm a texan fan, so his success makes the team better, which i'm all for. but, the chances of it happening are slim and the CFL's talent level is not comparable to the NFL's; no way, no how. the NFL is a better league, top to bottom.
I think the Texans would destroy any of the CFL teams in a game. It's like when Japenese players come here to play baseball, the MLB is the best baseball league in the world. Now if we were arguing about Soccer or Cricket, the rest of the world would win hands down.
Grizzled, You keep contending that the NFL and CFL are different enough that a good many players in the NFL wouldn't be able to hack it in the CFL. I, like many people in this thread, find that hard to believe. But I will admit that I know little to nothing about the CFL. Aside from the wider field, can you inform me and others about the main differences? If a wider field is the only main one, I don't buy that they are different enough that many NFL players wouldn't make it in the CFL.
Grizzled, I'm not going to jump into this CFL vs. NFL argument, because everything I want to say has already been said by others. However, your statements about Boerigter show you are clearly talking out of your ass (at least with this particular aspect of the discussion). Boerigter is not a starter. Boerigter has never been talked about as a starter. Sure, he's on a team with Morton and Kennison... but you're forgetting about Sylvester Morris and Snoop Minnis, both of whom will be ahead of him in the depth chart (and worlds ahead, talent-wise). Hell, I'd even put Dante Hall on the depth chart ahead of Boerigter next year. Lest we forget, there's still the matter of Johnnie Morton and Eddie Kennison, who are automatically ahead of him (even though Morton has been a bust for the Chiefs). So... the KC receiving corp depth chart next year will look something like this: 1) Kennison 2) Morris 3) Morton 4) Minnis 5) Hall 6) Boerigter ... And this list doesn't even include any potential drafted rookie wide receivers, who might leapfrog Boerigter on talent and potential alone...
Just a quick reply for VesceySux, more later. It’s clear I have some educatin’ to do. VERMEIL: "We're very, very pleased with the emergence of Boerigter and Dante Hall. We've got to provide Dante with more of an opportunity and Boerigter will be very competitive to be a starting wide receiver next year. Very competitive, and it will probably be a flip of a coin. Dante Hall will be given more of an opportunity to make a contribution in the passing game. http://www.kcchiefs.com/news_article.asp?ID=ZC24DZ26Y2I7RB6IAC2PARX84W see also: http://www.stjoenews-press.com/Main.asp?SectionID=81&SubSectionID=274&ArticleID=35686 http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/vinnie_iyer/20021230.html I don’t know where you get your info from, but I’m thinkin’ Vermeil is a pretty good source.
LOL. You expect Vermeil to say something bad about Boerigter? I'll bet you actually believe all those "giving 110% for my team" sound bites players regurgitate for the media, too. I stand by my assessment of the Chiefs. There are too many better receivers ahead of Boerigter for him to start. Dems the breaks, unfortunately. Check back during next year's training camp for the Truth.
