I don't own guns to "defend" myself from someone. I own them simply because I like shooting them. They are my hobby. They are my toys that I respect. You may not like them and that is your prerogative. There are many things that I don't like but I don't feel the need to get on my soap box and and declare we should ban them. Alcohol and tobacco are much more dangerous than firearms IMO. Perhaps you should rally for their bans.
That argument has been made many times and has been debunked many times. Guns are weapons; designed to kill things. Alcohol and tobacco are drugs that are designed to make people feel good. Yes, you can be killed by an alcoholic but only if they are driving a vehicle and while impaired. There aren't conditions on someone who has a gun. As long as it is loaded, they can kill or seriously injure, even accidentally: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/todd-canady-shoots-himself-buying-milk_n_1698566.html I hope you aren't like this idiot who carries his gun everywhere just because he has a license to do so and probably feels it is his "God-given 2nd Amendment Right". Just make sure you have the safety on if you do carry your gun around with you. Innocent, harmless people like myself will appreciate it in advance!
debunked? lol There are approximately 79,000 deaths attributable to excessive alcohol use each year in the United States.1 This makes excessive alcohol use the 3rd leading lifestyle-related cause of death for the nation.2 Additionally, excessive alcohol use is responsible for 2.3 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) annually, or an average of about 30 years of potential life lost for each death. In the single year 2005, there were more than 1.6 million hospitalizations3 and more than 4 million emergency room visits4 for alcohol-related conditions. http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm/ Violence, including intimate partner violence and child maltreatment. About 35% of victims report that offenders are under the influence of alcohol.8 Alcohol use is also associated with 2 out of 3 incidents of intimate partner violence.8 Studies have also shown that alcohol is a leading factor in child maltreatment and neglect cases, and is the most frequent substance abused among these parents.9 I feel better already! Please everyone disregard technical gun safety advice from the guy who has never owned a gun. More reading for you: Actual causes of death The leading causes of death in 2000 were tobacco (435 000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths), poor diet and physical inactivity (365 000 deaths; 15.2%) [corrected], and alcohol consumption (85 000 deaths; 3.5%). Other actual causes of death were microbial agents (75 000), toxic agents (55 000), motor vehicle crashes (43 000), incidents involving firearms (29 000), sexual behaviors (20 000), and illicit use of drugs (17 000). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15010446?dopt=Abstract
If shooting a gun increases serotonin and dopamine levels in a similar fashion, then the intended application of the object doesn't really matter. It's still a leisurely activity that people abuse, and end up hurting people because of it. Intent doesn't really matter. Whether hurting people was a conscious decision or not is irrelevant. It's like comparing addicts. Drugs and gambling are completely different things, but they trigger the same neurological response that leads to dependency, loss of judgement, etc. Therefore, they are handled by uniform procedure.
Guys, these topics (the dangers of alcohol, tobacco, fast food, fast cars, etc.) have already been discussed in this thread - I know because I wasted most of my day reading this thread. I am not the most eloquent speaker or poster but I am not re-inventing the wheel here when others like rocketsjudoka for example have already explained this. And Casey dude, seriously...how many more people have access to tobacco and alcohol compared to guns?? I mean no **** that it is going to cause more deaths. If you are arguing on this, I really don't know what to say other than WOW, lol.
540,000 actual deaths vs 29,000 deaths in 2000 alone. SG said Alcohol and tobacco are much more dangerous than firearms IMO. Nothing about that has been debunked.
Seriously manny? I can't own guns because I think they are "cool"? Im not allowed to be fascinated by them because they are designed to stopping a person or thing? Everyone I know who has firearms has not accidentally or purposefully harmed or killed anyone. They treat their weapons with respect. Its perfectly normal for a person to collect weapons. Get over it. Further, there are many more ways alcohol can harm someone outside of driving a vehicle. How many firearm accidents would you say we're attributed to alcohol? Or (attempted) suicide. Yes, alcohol makes everyone feel really good. What about all the dumb mistakes people make under the influence? A gun has never made me angry, aggressive, suicidal or make poor choices. Your comments lead me to believe you know very little about firearms. Accidental discharges are a result from carelessness, whether its the idiot who shoots himself or leaves his gun to be found by children. Those people have NO business owning a weapon. For example, my brother never carried a pistol while his sons were young. Now that they are old enough to know what a gun is, he takes them out shooting. They respect the weapon and know that if they should ever find one laying around anywhere, they are not to touch it. But again, just as there are irresponsible gun owners, there are easily just as many irresponsible drivers who get behind the wheel intoxicated. Neither may result in an accident but I certainly wish they individual was held responsible for their poor decision. To answer your question, No, I don't carry. To be honest, Im too much of a klutz to meaninglessly carry a weapon day in and day out. Further, I don't want to make a bad decision in the heat of the moment. Also Manny, there are many vets who come back overseas who simply have a hard time coping and do not feel safe unless they are carrying.
So let me get this straight, per your words: Firearms: Lower exposure rates = lower fatality and injuries Alcohol: Higher exposure rates = higher fatality and injuries Tell me again which of the two should we be more aggressive to regulate or ban?
It is getting late and I have an early bridge appointment tomorrow but nonetheless... Don't tell me that you have a crossbow as well as a set of nunchucks. Perfectly normal for people living in the United States. Go back and read arno_ed's post. He lives in the Netherlands, doesn't own a gun (or weapon) and feels perfectly safe. Only in this country does this mentality exist! I am not arguing that alcohol is dangerous. If misused, then yes it is extremely dangerous. Just like I misused my cell phone and had a car accident that almost killed me and fortunately did not involve anyone else. Yet I was irresponsible and careless; however, I learned a lesson about driving and using a cell phone. But my argument is that things like alcohol, cell phones, fast food, fast cars, etc. are not dangerous UNLESS they are misused. A gun is perfectly safe as long as it is not loaded but the chances of something going wrong and causing injury is a lot greater. There are more alcohol-related accidents compared to guns but once again, you have a greater sample size. If 100,000 people are using alcohol and 10,000 are using guns, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that alcohol is the more "deadly killer". What would be useful is how many deaths per user are there for both guns and alcohol - would give a better picture, IMO. I have said several times in this thread that I have never shot a gun and never want to. I don't claim to be an expert; just some nerd who strongly believes in gun control for this country! With that being said, I have also stated that I don't begrudge people for owning guns for protecting themselves, especially if they live in high crime areas. Where I have a problem is being able to obtain assault rifles. The part I bolded is also what concerns me - it is far too easy for anyone to get a gun. I don't doubt that you and Casey along with Refman and anyone else that is pro-gun rights are responsible owners. It is the people like Holmes and Cho and to a degree the idiot Canady in Wal-Mart that ruins it. Why can't the laws be stricter to get a gun so these clowns don't give the responsible gun owners a bad name? That is all I am asking for along with anyone else that is pro-gun control (I did state that I would like to see a ban on guns completely but I know that is so unrealistic, there's no point of keep mentioning it). Appreciate your honesty and candor but like I said before there are far too many people out there that can get a gun that have no business owning one. And I appreciate anyone that serves or served in the military, but that line about not coping...unless they are in a bad part of town constantly, what is the fear or feeling of being unsafe? I'm just not buying that - sounds like a cop-out line; sorry.
Firearms use is dangerous for other people, you can kill others with it. Tobacco is dangerous for yourself, less for others (altough second hand smoking can be a bit dangerous, but in the Netherlands you are not allowed to smoke in bars or public buildings). Most deaths are smokers themselves. With Guns most death are not gun users. Alcohol is also more dangerous for yourself. They are only dangerous for others if you drink and drive, which is illegal. So they are regulating that. But I agree with you that they should be more harsh with people who are drunk and drive. IMHO their drivers license should be taken away from them for the rest of their life.
The right thing to do is repeal the 2nd amendment. Until that is done there should be a right to bear arms. Doesn't matter really, but I want it to be done decently by changing the constitution. Instead of word-smthing around the bill of rights or making the constitution a whim of public debate and private interpretation men and governments should rule by intelligent honesty. Just repeal the amendment and be done with it. I would applaud that course. Liberty and freedom are not based upon opinions and discussion. They are based upon responsibilities, laws, and justice. We care much more about man's opinions than man's responsibility. I would rather live under honest tyranny than hypocritical liars. The 2nd amendment at one time protected we the people from government. It can no longer provide that protection so it has become useless. Just repeal it.
Let's get rid of the other Bill of Rights too while we are at it...btw, the 2nd admendment is a deterrant and will always be. I'm sure the 6 million jews who died from Hitler would have realized if they could have had a rifle, that might not have kept them from death by the mechanized war machine, but I guarantee there would be a lot less boots on the ground for the Nazis... and I second what was stated by spaceghost - I own firearms and shoot as a hobby. "assault rifles" are far less likely to be used in a criminal act. The .50 BMG has never been used in a criminal act, yet it is outlawed in California. All because they are "scary-looking", yet they reflect the least actually towards gun crimes...
Yes because a bunch of untrained citizens with pistols and semi automatic weapons are going to stop the full force of the American military from crashing down on their heads. Please. Tell me more about how the rebels in the Whiskey Rebellion successfully fought off George Washington's army of federal troops. The 2nd amendment was effective when colonists were just as able and as well-armed as the extremely weak and inexperienced federal army and even then the federal government were able to easily squash rebellions.
Correct we are at the mercy of a corporatist government, and I love the bill of rights and miss them.
Where do you get this misconception that people with guns are untrained??...unless you are referring to tactics of war. Again, everyone I know practices extremely safe habits when handling a gun. Not only that, if someone should unsafely handle a weapon, they jump their ass and correct them. Your issue is that you've been watching too many western movies with everyone twirling guns on their fingers or gangster movies of people shoving pistols in their waist bands or shooting pistols sideways. Perhaps you should go visit a couple gun ranges and see how typical gun owners handle their weapons. You're confusing the purpose of the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment does not encourage a bunch of pissed off citizens to rebel against a stable government because they are unhappy with a few certain laws...such as health care mandate. Its there if the government should ever start breaking down and factions should start to form in the military and government. Its easy to say the 2nd amendment is redundant when we have a strong unified government, but that was not the case 200+ years ago....and it may not be the case in 200+ years. What I do know is fantasy movies like Red Dawn would never happen as long as our citizens are well armed.
