There's a presentation being given at the First Unitarian Universalist Church of Houston on "Homosexuality and the Bible" on Sunday, Nov. 17, 1:00pm, Room 302. The Rev. Ken Martin of Austin will discuss a video he's produced on the topic. It sounds interesting, and unfortunately I'm not in town. If any of you in Houston are interested and attend, I'd appreciate it if you could take some notes and tell me the gist of the argument (via e-mail, although you're free to start a thread about it/return to this thread if you care to deal with the chaos that results.)
Hmm... 1) Ok, If God is indeed real (which I do believe) 2) God is omnipotent...he controls everything. 3) Homosexuals exist Therefore, If God didn't want homosexuals to exist, they wouldn't. The homosexual "rule" was made up by some guy a few centuries back that hated them. God din't say jack about the subject. See how easy that was to use a weird form of logic to answer the question? Next topic please...
So this is also how you explain the existence of war and rape? Note: I do not mean to bring homosexuality and war and rape into any connection whatsoever. I am just pointing out a little flaw in the logic used in the post above by using some extreme examples. With regards to homosexuality, I belong to the "not that there is anything wrong with that" camp!
There's nothing wrong with that logic. If God controls everything, and something exists, then obviously God wishes it be.
I never said my logic was perfect... war and rape...hmmm....how do I explain this? Mankind are a bunch of damn animals... but at least gays arent hurting anyone else.. where as, wars kill ppl, and rapists scar women for life.. Hell if I know, I twisted my own logic to say that I dont believe God ever *really* said that gays are "abominations".
"Omnipotent" means all-powerful. God could control everything - <i>if He chose to</i>. Creating beings with free will means all sorts of things will exist that aren't necessarily right or good. But being right or good is a lot more meaningful if we had the choice to make.
God is God. To me he's different than he is to you. Leave it at that. My fault for bumping this to make a lame joke. But yeah, before you post anything else about what/who/why/how God is, think about this: Is anybody in this forum going to be able to change your perception of God with one (or many) posts? Then if you're doing the same thing, your post is going to fall on ears as deaf as your own. Unless, of course, you're a Mormon Missionary. But if that were the case, you'd be at the Utah Jazz BBS hangout; so just don't do it.
Leviticus 20:13 NIV -- "`If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. SHOCKING...
Leviticus 18:22 when the Lord was speaking to Moses about sexual sins "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." Leviticus 20:13 - the Lord still speaking to Moses. "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." Romans 1:21-27 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man - and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error wich was due.
Hmmm… then he’s not following the bible very closely. The first question is, is homosexuality a sin? Now I’m going to say something controversial, but wait for the BUT that follows.) Well, pretty clearly the parts weren’t designed to fit that way. Reproduction doesn’t occur that way either, so it shouldn’t be a stretch to conclude that, yes, it is a sin. BUT, what are the implications of this? After all, lots of things are sins. To quote Romans 1, immediately after the famous passage on homosexuality: 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (And who among us has not gossiped, disobeyed parents, been arrogant of boastful?) So how do we deal with others who behave this way, and with ourselves since we do or have done many these things too? The very next passage in Romans says: 1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? Pretty clearly we are not to be judgmental, and this includes being judgmental against homosexuals. You live by what you believe. You talk about what you believe. But you DO NOT judge others, lest ye be judged. In fact you should be responding with “kindness, tolerance and patience.” And on who is going to heaven: Romans 3 No One is Righteous 10As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."[3] 13"Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit."[4] "The poison of vipers is on their lips."[5] 14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[6] 15"Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16ruin and misery mark their ways, 17and the way of peace they do not know."[7] 18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[8] 19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. Righteousness Through Faith 21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[9] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Sorry for the long quote, but it is Sunday after all. ) So clearly sin or more specifically remaining sin free (which is impossible), including homosexuality, is not what gets you to heaven. It is by grace, through faith, that a person is deemed righteous. (And it is from that faith, and the spirit of God that accompanies it, that the fruits of the spirit flow, and good deeds are done. The deeds are a result of a person’s relationship with God, not the price of admission.) But perhaps this was a talk to Christians? That would be kind of a different topic. If he was talking about people who are already Christians but who wilfully engage in sin (any sin) then it becomes a somewhat different conversation, with some passages from later in Romans and Hebrews that become applicable.
God doesn't really care about anything that happens here. Don't you think he has other stuff to worry about? Or some other planet to watch over in the infinite universe? Oh that's right. Christian's need to think they are cared about by some power.
Come on now. First of all, this thread is derailed. Secondly, your last statement is obviously meant to put down people of a different religion than your own beliefs. What do you gain from that? And finally, you misspelled Christians. Damn, why didn't I realize that the edit function is back. I could have corrected my typo within the first three minutes. Oh well .
I don’t think anybody is taking Nomar seriously anymore SJC. He’s playing a character that’s starting to get old.
