Oh No Evil Socialisms! Free Education? SOCIALISTS!!!!

That exists. Ever heard of the Phoenix system? That's subsidized to the max (it's the only way they make profits really).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix#Governmental_Action

This is EXACTLY what America needs. The best would be to have Barclays and JP Morgan bankers running the schools. High-margin education!

 

I really like this poster, it makes a clear argument. That I disagree with.

The starting premise that education can be free is a fallacy. Unless the educators and associated workers are all volunteer, and the resources appear from nowhere, education has a cost. It's just spread around (notice how there is no mention that the free education subsidy may be a contributor to the skyrocketing costs). Not to mention the opportunity costs of what else could have been done with the time/money/resources used to educate.

Student debt is the same way. The debt will still exist, it just gets spread around.

"Unleashing for profit schools to prey upon students" - now this one is silly and kind of insulting. No one forces anyone to attend these schools. If a functioning adult feels it has value to them, it's none of my business how they choose to get educated. "For profit" just means there is mutual benefit between the two willing parties. How is win-win a bad thing?

So crony capitalism is ok for Solyndra but bad for Phoenix?

I would prefer no subsidy at all for higher education, but a subsidy tied to the customer (student) is preferable to direct government grants (which it appears Phoenix is getting).

If the student is satisfied, why does it matter if Phoenix dances to some federal bureaucrat's strings?

 

Ah, see this is called a strawman. You automatically assumed my position on certain issues without ever bothering to ask. Let's just say I don't like Solyndra, although the economic sense of the program was much better than than here, considering that market competition was being distorted by external agents (namely China) that heavily subsidized their solar panels (because they're ahead of the curve now), and America can't really stop China from doing that, but it can regulate its' own schools.

To your second point, it matters because Phoenix exists as a place to push students through at the cheapest price possible in order to grab subsidies, which means nobody is getting the best education possible there. Like a for-profit prison company (how those exist is another f**king sketchy part of the system), except Phoenix pushes them to debt prisons created by their excessive tuition, and terrible credentials. They prey on the weakest who think they have no other options due to the growing displacement of the bachelor degree in favor of the masters' degree as the gateway to the labour market.

 

Real education reform will come organically - without government. The same can happen at any level. Statists and corrupt government teachers unions etc would try their best to never let the government lose their monopoly on "education" however.

'Badges' Earned Online Pose Challenge to Traditional College Diplomas

January 8, 2012

By Jeffrey R. Young

The spread of a seemingly playful alternative to traditional diplomas, inspired by Boy Scout achievement patches and video-game power-ups, suggests that the standard certification system no longer works in today's fast-changing job market.

Educational upstarts across the Web are adopting systems of "badges" to certify skills and abilities. If scouting focuses on outdoorsy skills like tying knots, these badges denote areas employers might look for, like mentorship or digital video editing. Many of the new digital badges are easy to attain—intentionally so—to keep students motivated, while others signal mastery of fine-grained skills that are not formally recognized in a traditional classroom.

At the free online-education provider Khan Academy, for instance, students get a "Great Listener" badge for watching 30 minutes of videos from its collection of thousands of short educational clips. With enough of those badges, paired with badges earned for passing standardized tests administered on the site, users can earn the distinction of "Master of Algebra" or other "Challenge Patches."

Traditional colleges and universities are considering badges and other alternative credentials as well. In December the Massachusetts Institute of Technology announced that it will create MITx, a self-service learning system in which students can take online tests and earn certificates after watching free course materials posted by the university.

MIT also has an arrangement with a company called OpenStudy, which runs online study groups, to give online badges to students who give consistently useful answers in discussion forums set up around the free lecture materials the university has long posted as part of its OpenCourseWare project.

But the biggest push for badges is coming from industry and education reformers, rather than from traditional educational institutions. Mozilla, the group that develops the popular Firefox Web browser, is designing a framework to let anyone with a Web page—colleges, companies, or even individuals—issue education badges designed to prevent forgeries and give potential employers details about the distinctions at the click of a mouse. Hundreds of educational institutions, traditional and nontraditional, have flocked to a $2-million grant program run in coordination with the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, seeking financial support to experiment with the educational-badge platform.

Employers might prefer a world of badges to the current system. After all, traditional college diplomas look elegant when hung on the wall, but they contain very little detail about what the recipient learned. Students using Mozilla's proposed badge system might display dozens or even hundreds of merit badges on their online résumés detailing what they studied. And students could start showing off the badges as they earn them, rather than waiting four years to earn a diploma.

"We have to question the tyranny of the degree," says David Wiley, an associate professor of instructional psychology and technology at Brigham Young University. Mr. Wiley is an outspoken advocate of so-called open education, and he imagines a future where screenfuls of badges from free or low-cost institutions, perhaps mixed with a course or two from a traditional college, replace the need for setting foot on a campus. "As soon as big employers everywhere start accepting these new credentials, either singly or in bundles, the gig is up completely."

http://chronicle.com/article/Badges-Earned-Online-Pose/130241/

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8gnNtFCj2vE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Yeah, I don't think Goldman Sachs will hire based on your "Great Listener" badge, but you can submit that on your CV if you so desire.

 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sjdUtM6GcAU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here, you get my "Sound Economy" Badge if you watch this video in its' entirety.

It certifies that you know about the Federal Steel Reserve (and all the terrible implications!)

 

This argument starts with the premise that people are too stupid to know what has value to them, which I reject.

How can Phoenix "prey" on someone when the transaction is entirely voluntary?

It's all very paternalistic. Blaming McDonalds for obesity relies on the same reasoning.

 

Yeah, see, you might reject that argument, but a couple of Nobel prize laureates in Economics don't. Mind you, the argument does not directly imply that a vast majority of people are idiots, but it does imply that they are misinformed for one reason or another (could be a systematic attempt to keep relevant information out by agents who have a better interest in ignorance---see University of Phoenix).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

UofP certainly has information about graduation and job rates that I hope people who apply to that damn place don't have because, yes, if they did, it implies they are idiots.

 

The socialists death-grip on their so-called "education" is falling apart. It's a wonderful thing to behold.

 

I'm sure Wal-Mart can hire cashiers based on their online badges, but in the meanwhile, you can try applying to positions at the accounting Big 4, BCG and JP Morgan with your badges, and see where that gets you.

Not to mention that the wave of educated professionals is not even coming from America, but from China and the "new Ivies". Good luck trying to get the Chinese government to endorse this as well.

Do I get the "Bong Hits" badge if I look up Bob Marley's Wikipedia page 420 times? I'd be down for that.

 

Hightop, have you been angling for the "Angry Austrian Libertarian" badge all these times?

sorry bro, only the crazies in academia and banking are of your type. Good luck interviewing with the head of macroeconomics at any bank, and explaining to their New Keynesian asses why you think the Federal "Steel" Reserve should be disbanded.

 

proudly presented...

 

I knew a girl who attended a small liberal arts college that cost a fortune, but since it was her wealthy parents' money it didn't matter that her obscure major led to a fruitless job search; not all students of the humanities are like her.

The fact is that even if you go to a major state school like UT, you can major in History like I did and still make a good living. Like da juice mentioned, history and graduate education like law school is far from worthless. You can make 10x more than a HS diploma solely. Even with no postgraduate education, a history major I knew had great internships which landed her a decent, salaried job at the UN. That wouldn't have been possible with just HS alone.

Granted, most of the history majors I knew were confused, unambitious kids who ended up with mediocre employment having nothing to do with their major (their words not mine), and they forgot most of the history they learned so your stereotype of them seems accurate. I wanted to share my experience that it's not entirely hopeless majoring in the humanities. An excellent GPA, several internships, and great personal skills will land you a great job.

It seems you have an axe to grind against the liberal arts because you didn't get the position you wanted and had to recruit harder than your non-humanities friends? Do you mind sharing what you do? Besides, of the science and engineering majors I knew that didn't go to medical school or work for an oil & gas company, most went on to work for Wall Street as quants creating convoluted securities that destroyed our economy. Sure they got paid well, but I don't think it was "better" work.

In contrast, friends from when I was younger and growing up abroad who studied engineering and/or natural sciences actually do the kind of work more Americans should do (some are at Wall Street as well): superconductor research, genetic engineering, pharmaceuticals, etc. More importantly, they're all managed at the highest level by liberal arts majors. There is something about the way these humanities majors think about concepts which their science underlings lack.

If more liberal arts majors studied as much math as I did outside of their degree requirements, I think that would help a lot. Better yet, double majoring in liberal arts and science/engineering would be optimal. State school resources should offer incentives for students to study both science and the humanities.

 

Axe to grind? Hardly. I don't regret my major for a minute, nor do I resent my friends who had an easier time of it than I did - as I stated in your bolded quote, I accepted and acknowledged it. Anyone who chooses a path in liberal arts and who doesn't realize that from the beginning has no business taking the subject. I'm observing something that you yourself observe - it's not for everyone. At all. And thus, the state shouldn't be paying for everyone to head over there, but should rather focus on what we already have and improving it.