Kevin Martin: "Treating players like assests will get you NO WHERE!"

No, I agree 100%. I've heard him proudly throw the word assets around multiple times. I just thought it was very interesting he stated he NEVER used the term.

But I think the "money ball" concept only helps balance payroll. In terms of building a great core and eventual contender it's trash. Daryl Morey will NEVER build a contender as GM of the Rockets. I predict he'll step down a few more seasons of going nowhere

 

Okay. "meh." Let me remember that name. From now on, whenever you say you think something or you say you don't think something, I'm going to treat it like you weren't expressing an opinion or guessing at something (as I clearly was) and pretend that you were instead stating a fact but failing to provide evidence in support of the fact of your opinion.

In other words, every time I notice you posting an opinion (for example, "I don't like our current rotation" or whatever) I will reply by saying, "Any evidence to support this?"

Didn't this used to be a board where we talked about our opinions about the Rockets? And isn't general management part of that, particularly when we've endured such a lousy streak in attracting key players?

You "In Morey I Trust" guys are more intransigent than those pesky YOF's.

 

What is a reading comprehension

Do you even into context

Shet, I wish we treated our star players with less loyalty. Should've delt Mcgrady's ass out of here at the start of the 08-09 season for VC or something.

 

Well, generally, with rational human beings, opinions are built around facts and evidence, and people may ask why your opinion is the way it is. This isn't exactly something extraordinary.

 

Why am I being a dick? Why are you ignoring the facts and perpetuating lies and perceptions that are not based in any fact whatsoever. You and Obamadude act like DM is the only GM in the world that trades players or even talks about it on the damn radio. What's funny about this is exactly how very little air time the Rockets even get on the Radio in Houston!

I have laid out facts about Mark Cuban (who by the way gets a lot more radio time than DM) how he treats his players like assets and how many players he has traded. But those facts get overlooked by you and Obamadude because they don't support your argument.

I further talk about all the trades Sam Presti has made but those get justified while there is simply no justification at all for DM trading players because when he does it, it's treating players like assets! When posters like you and Obamadude continue to perpetuate this perception that somehow Daryl Morey treats his players like assets and no other GM does it is just a lie. EVERY DAMN GM DOES IT. Some, like Mark Cuban do it a lot more than Daryl Morey, but let's ignore that because it does not support your argument.

And I'm the dick? Really dude? Maybe you should check yourself before resorting to name calling.

 

Woah, Batman, you have really turned into one of the mindless pitchfork pod people on this issue! The Morey hysteria around here is the Rockets equivalent to that death panel BS surrounding health care reform. If you applied the same misinformation and leaps of logic to politics as you do to the state of the Rockets under Morey you would be a member of the tea party...

Anyway, I have yet to see an example of a GM in any salary cap sport that doesn't treat players like assets. Morey is all too *in-step* with management trends on this issue. If Martin doesn't grasp this then and he is not paying attention. More likely, he's a weak minded little twerp who would rather pout than fight. Screw him.

 

They are human beings and it does create problems,I am not against trading anyone to improve the team.
It needs to be handled better.

 

Agreed.

Martin needs to go bye-bye soon, along with Lowry. Their attitudes both stink...

 

What really cracks me up is that when Sacramento traded Martin it was no big deal but when Houston tries to trade in a move to upgrade the team Morey is treating his players like assets and no agents will want to deal with him anymore.

 

I'll concede the point that Morey is not the best people person schmoozer, most analytical guys aren't, just like IT guys they are fact driven and try to come up with solutions based on the facts they gather. What is missing is what many refer to as emotional leadership skills, to make the people you control want to work for you and feel their work is appreciated. In Morey's quest to toe the bottom line and still field a competitive team under the situation given to him, he's neglected the emotional leadership part.

But in these times, I'd rather have a GM be very smart about our salary cap than someone who's a great people person but has his team in salary cap hell.

Btw, Moneyball is another overused cliche around here. Doesn't matter what system you use, if you have mid level talent you're more than likely to get middle of the road results. Oh tank you say? That's not Morey's call. Oh trade for a superstar you say, sure let me know when you can trade mid level talent for a superstar (with teams not in collusion with each other).

 

Yes he has used the term before, but not as loosely as some posters here would have you believe. It's repeated here every day, so you would think he uses it in every interview, but if you go search there are 6 quoted interviews, and some of those quotes regarding assets could easily have been referring to future draft picks and salary cap space, not actual players on the team.

Jerome Solomon bothered to track down all the quotes he could find here:

http://blog.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2011/04/addressing-daryl-moreys-assets/

Presumably if there were more, he would have mentioned them, but it is possible that there were some other interviews that Solomon missed. Perhaps Morey has said it since then, but I haven't been able to find a quote to prove or disprove this.

Regardless of how much he said it in the past, it isn't something he is saying all the time anymore. I would be more mad if he wasn't trying to trade anyone on the team. It's not a contending team, and no one on it should be untradeable.

Is it "moneyball" that caused both Yao and McGrady to break down to basicly career ending injuries (or at least the end of his career as a star in Tmac's case), and result in us getting basicly nothing in return for them? Moneyball looked pretty good before Yao went down, even after losing Tmac to injury. What would a "non-moneyball" GM have done that would have us with a better record over that stretch? Stars don't come to teams because of the GM, they come because they think they have a better chance of winning than their old team gave them, usually by teaming up with another star.

Moneyball hasn't gotten us back to contending yet, but it has avoided giving out any untradeable contracts, had an overall good record in the draft relative to where we have picked, and generally wound up on the "winning side" of any trades, even if he hasn't pulled off the superstar trade yet.

Keep in mind that Les doesn't want to tank, and if he did, Morey could easily do that for him. Besides record wise, a tanking GM's "achievements" over that stretch would look much worse.

I completely relate to the frustration of not improving and no immediate sign of hope, but I don't think Money ball has anything to do with the situation, and haven't seen any explanation as to what a different GM would do that would have us in a significantly better position. That doesn't mean Morey has a lifetime pass or that tomorrow he won't make a move that I completely disagree with. It just means that I don't think the GM is the weak link holding the team back, and in fact with the stricter luxuary tax rules kicking in soon, having a moneyball GM has the potential to pay off big.

 

I second that!

 

Trying to spread more perception with absolutely zero fact.

 

I'm perpetuating lies now, am I? This is silly. I'm not DD. I don't want to have a fight in the GARM. I don't even fight in the D&D anymore. I don't enjoy fighting. I come here for fun. I've said my bit and I have backed it up whether you'd like to admit that or not (the truth is we simply disagree - you become the dick when you call the person with whom you disagree a liar when he hasn't lied).

I leave you with this thought. You listed a lot of the ways Cuban and Morey are the same.

Want to think about a way in which they're different? Here's one:

The Dallas Mavericks won the finals last year. The Houston Rockets won the 14th pick in the draft.

Want to talk about how all GM's approach players in the same fashion, both in reality and in perception (because both are equally important in the impact they have on players)? Guess what else is true. All teams suffer debilitating injuries. All teams have bad luck. All teams get bad calls. Sometimes teams get such bad calls that the whole Olajuwon/Drexler/Barkley experiment gets ruined.

It all comes out in the wash.

Morey and Cuban aren't the same.

Cuban won.

 

Cuban has Dirk. Cuban is an owner, Morey works for one.

 

But that's gonna be it for me. Like I said, I don't enjoy arguing anymore and when a discussion becomes an argument or even a debate my blood pressure rises, I become angry, then I become insulting, then I feel bad for being insulting... It's not my game anymore. I avoid it. Under doctors' orders.

So let's just say you're right and I'm wrong. I don't care enough to care. And also I've said my piece.

 

Prove it.