North Korea begging to have the s*** bombed out of them.

Very calm and mature response for a husband, but FYI, I think HS may have desired to edit anyway:

 

Yeah Hayes, apology accepted, whatever. Although I do think the fact that it even occurred to you to write such a thing in the first place says more about you than it does about me!

Now, let's see if Little Ms Nympho can manage to string a few coherent thoughts together. It's tough for me, as you know, being constantly overwhelmed with nearly uncontrollable desires for manflesh, so I hope you'll all bear with me. There's nothing sexier to me - or to Hayes, obviously - than an argument about the legitimacy of fomenting military coups.

OK, so your argument here, in a very very condensed nutshell, is:

a) Things that happened during the Cold War were all justified in the context of the Soviet threat. Uh, debatable at best. Whole historical careers have been made arguing this issue back and forth.
b) Glynch's argument, you say initially, is based on Cold War events. When he brings up Venezuela, a post Cold War event, you say it's irrelevant because... because the people of Venezuela now think Chavez is a d******d? Really, that's it? Let me read that quote up there again... oh yes, you're actually saying that the attempted coup was merely ahead of its time and legitimate because the military and their US sponsors *knew* it would end up this way. Sorry, won't wash. That's *still* an attempt to foment a coup in an independent country with democratic elections. Not justified any way you slice it, and certainly not done under the auspices of ridding the world of the Soviet threat, either.
c) On another front, you argue that Venezuela is not relevant to the current situations in Iraq and N. Korea because... well, because you say so! OK, fair enough. Can't argue with that one. I think it was probably brought up by others because you're always theorising that dodgy US actions are well in the past and now the US is doing its level best to be as consistent as it can in spreading democracy to everyone and removing all those awful dictators, goshdarnit. Well, dodgy US actions are *not* well in the past, as Venezuela proves. That's why people mentioned it.

All right, that's about enough from me. Twenty minutes is about as long as I can last without being shagged rigid, and this conversation has just been so... damned... HOT! Rrrrreeeeeeooooowwwrrrr....

 

Yep.

 

Ms. Nympho , this is just a question by someone who is not a native speaker...English spelling or not...would it not be "hung over"? This is not an attempted kill, since I am not sure myself and I could not figure out the correct spelling...just wondering.

 

Hrm. I'm not sure, you might be right. Of course, I wrote that on December 31st, your time.

Note: I don't put a period/full stop after 'Ms' because the abbreviation occurs between the 'M' and the 's' rather than after the two letters. Oh, and we tend to use single quotation marks rather than double ones. OK, just making that clear so I don't get killed. You're a hard taskmaster, Chiles. And no, that doesn't mean I want to shag you. (Don't get too excited at the thought, Hayes.)

 

Well its obviously VERY debatable if whole careers have been made arguing the point. That kinda cuts against your attitude that my position is somehow tenuous or on the fringe.

No, actually my response has several parts. Keep in mind that the last part of this discussion between glynch and I is about what 'my' foreign policy would look like vs what 'his' foreign policy would look like, which is why I point out that I have criticized some of the support for dictators in the past, and that I have not proposed supporting dictators in todays world.

Actually I also dispute the claims that the US 'forment'ed a coup attempt. That does not seem to be the case, as the first line of my response indicates, if the US supported the coup then Chavez would be out now. Although I will admit that the post-coup justification is probably a weak argument, except that it does provide more context to the situation in that country. This is not Chile ala '73 where a seemingly popular leader is assassinated with the knowledge if not the outright support of the US government. This is a leader very unpopular with the people of Venezuela, and the people do not have immediate recourse to remove him. That provided the INDIGENOUS impetus for the military to consider removing him, not one instigated by the US.

I guess if Bush temporarily lent his support in Venezuela then it was wrong, although I don't really know if that was the case. Either way the Venezuela example is really completely different from the old days of supporting the likes of Pinochet, Batista, Somoza, the Shah etc., cases which one could see how the indigenous people would have a dislike or distrust of the US.

I'm not sure how you miss the points I make on the differences. Iraq and N Korea are situations where we would be removing dictators with elected officials. That cannot possibly be the same as allegedly removing an elected official for a junta. Those are kinda opposites. So saying we should not act in Iraq or N Korea because of what we may have done in Venezuela makes no sense.

Finally, I do not have to justify every action the US takes to hold a reasonable position that intervention in Iraq and N Korea are justified.

 

Damn, I was already getting excited .

 

It's a pity you aren't doing Spelling Survivor, Hayes. I would have taken great satisfaction in 'killing' you for the mistakes in that last post.

Actually, I'm not entirely sure where I stand on Iraq and North Korea. I'm obviously not too keen on military action, though. My main issue was with your usual 'everything the US does is justified!' stance...

By the way, that quote is too good to languish in an archived thread somewhere.

 

That's great. The day I make my most idiotic comment on the bbs out of all that I've posted is the day 'edit' is not an option. If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all... Now I can rue my drunken stupidity in perpetuity.

Yep. That makes sense. I would not be comfortable supporting US assistance to overthrow Chavez, if that was indeed the case.

 

If it's any comfort to you, it's not going to be in perpetuity. Just until someone else says something even more r****ded about me.

Heehee.

 

Out of delicacy I won't quote the first part of the paragraph, but it was one of those few posts that makes me start laughing outloud at the keyboard.

Great way to really start the New Years after my post hangover late morning nap.

Touching and almost funny was the "yep" quote from Hayes. I apologize for bating Hayes about left wing women. I do suspect that one of the things that bothers those of the "conservative persuasion" (note I'm trying to not offend their sensitivities) is the fear that leftwingers are having more ilicit fun. Even worse they seem to get away with it.

Sorry, but I can't get it up to talk about fomenting coups this morning. I guess I just don't find it that sexy. Maybe after another cup of coffee or something.

 

See amercians keep thinking everythoing they do is right , elect bush for one more turn , see what this world will turn into, see how much hatred from those muslim in the milddle east toward amercians, your armies at their holyland !!!! Taiwan is part of china of thosaundsa of years, there is no compromise, debate over taiwan should reunify or not as its been part of china since beginging. Yes how to unify is only the problem!!!!! this is an amrican bbs that is why i post here cuz i know 99 percent of u will disagree what i said or even hate it but that's ok becuz what u said hayes is alot bull**** u want to believe n if your post were in a chinese bbs it will be the same as mine here!!!! i was born in hk , the britsh colony before ,i had studied in canada from 5th grade to 10 before, my dad is a business man he hate commnism, i been study in chirtsan school since grade 1, i never been to china except when i was three, so i am not a brainwashed commie as u may think i am . let me tell u something there is also millions if not billion of chinese people think smiliar to me about america, one things for sure we both love our country, patriot, so i suggest u and alot of americans try to view the world from a different point, if everything the americans do is moralely right nothing like the 911 would happan, as bad as u think china is to its own people n a threat to the world more than america, why no such attack like 911 or even smaller scale of terrioism toward chinese peoples????!!! i can travel to many places in the world without worrying about possbily the target of any group, while u have to be paranoid about when will the muslim strike again at your own home!!!!
if the americans really stick for their belief in democracy , they wouldnt give up taiwan for to trade with china, this is politics , american see much bigger benefict even tho mainlandchina is comunnist, another thing is why didnt amercian fought until every last man in vietnam if they really belief what they did was right, u said amercian governemt lose support form public , why did it lose supports???
about vietnam-china war what is the reason for prc to attack vietnam if not the border theif???!!! espeically chinese gave all the support to viet againist china!!!!!china stopped the attack ater they think it will teach the viet a lesson not to rob form the borader n becuz they see almost everything the viet fought with were made in china!!! just becuz u dunt like communist china doesnt mean everything they do is wrong! china is no threat to the world , which county did china threat to invade????!!! tibet part of china taiwan is part of china, no country is the answer!!! yes this is not what u want to believe but this is the truth!!!
american cant destroy every of thier enemies in the middle east , things will only get worse if more wars , the families that see the soldiers die in war will only hate the other side more!!!! everyday u see news in the world every war or possible war somehow the amerian is involve , yes maybe every they fought is legit but it doesnt mean everyone in the world will like it things will not get better with more wars, amercia need to change its foreign policy!!!!

 

About 50 years ago the american thought of using atomic bomb to china in korean war so millions of chinese would be dead!!!! it was stopped becuz of fear of retilation from moscow, yes thank god!!!! now u tell me why n korea has no right to make nuclear bomb for survival???? as much as u hate the leader of current leader of north korean hayesstreet, his father did get support from koreans n were loved by alot of korean too.
with the abombs the thick headed amercian will think twice before they do anything, this is needed !!!! now with the missile defense systems the american will relieve on being attack by icbms this amke the american governement without hestitaion to use nuclear weapoons to any country that they dunt like example, a communist china!!!
is democracry really the solution to all nations at all ages???!!! i dunno if i am wrong but the president of the us that allowed slavery werent they elected too ???!!! mao zedong , fedel castro and president kim they are all bad leaders in your eyes so how about those president that aloow white people to use black people as slaves n view all other colors are second class human being !!! what i really want to know is the father of america george washington ,did he allow slavery too??? did he have a black slaves at home back at the time????!!!!
so were those president elected too? why did they do such wrong n evil things?! becuz the americans were wrong too .
do u american really expect the north korean just be quiet n sit there to wait for their turn next to iraq after what bush said about the 3 aixs of evil, how do u expcet a person or a country to cooperate with u after u naming him evil n seeing u about to take out 1( iraq)!!!! this is unrealistic what the american is thinking

 

Please check the spelling kill thread .

 

wow fatfat...seems like someone needs a 40 and a blunt to calm down...i counted 66 exclamation marks. that has to be some sort of record!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'll try this once, but I honestly don't have high hopes for the response from you, ffc. Maybe you'll surprise me.

We have many people, like China (apparently), who thinks our country can do no wrong. But there are many other who recognize and understand our faults and mistakes, and we've certainly made plenty.

But other than a present-day confusion between doing 'what's right' and doing 'what's in our interest', many of these past mistakes are recognized for what they are...mistakes. We don't try to rewrite history to serve our needs or egos.

Taiwan may have been a part of China for a 1000 years, but those people have democracy and don't want to lose it. I have never heard anyone, other than you, suggest that we sold-out Taiwan. It has been reiterated that we would not stand idly by while Taiwan was attacked. I imagine that someday your government may evolve into something that the Taiwanese are willing to embrace, but until then, they will govern themselves.

Don't stupidly assume that 911 was a result of one of our immoral acts. Instead, use your brain to look at the evidence: for years, bin laden's problem with the US has been troops in Saudi Arabia. Nothing else leds to these attacks. So is the presence of troops, welcomed in by the rulers of Saudi Arabia, immoral? You tell me.

Ah yes, Vietnam, you bring that up often. Communism can certainly hold an allure for the people of developing nations or dictatorships. Americans thought that they were fighting the spread of anti-democratic forces, yet it is what the Vietnamese wanted.

Many Vietnamese ended up escaping the wonderful communism that followed the American withdrawal (see 'boat people'). One of my good friends was one. Hi sheepishly admits that his family supported the communists, but soon found that they couldn't even travel to the next village without papers and permission. How wonderful! Why did they leave? Because communism has never been more than a power grab by a few individuals.

We were just evil to fight that, eh? You say your Dad hates communism, so he does he understand why we fought it? Why do you mention your Dad's feeling about it and not your own? Do you feel comfortable stating here that communism sucks? Hmm.

What country did China threaten to invade? Tibet would be free, Taiwan would not need to worry, and there would have been no Korean War and no Vietnam War.

Regarding America and wars...
Yes, we are much more likely to go to war, but it's not always for self-interest. In many ways, it is American military power that provides stability through the world and fixes problems that arise. Where's China? Why didn't Chinese bombs help defend Bosnians who were being massacred? Why weren't Chinese trying to protect food shipments in Somalia? Why didn't China help free Kuwait? (Fine, you can say we just did it to protect Kuwaiti oil, but where would your economy be if the supply of oil ruined world markets; everyone benefits from the stability we provide)

Do we make enemies when we act as the world's policeman? You bet. But just because some hate us does not mean that they're right. OBL's gang had the Somali's thinking that we were invading (who would want Somalia anyway?) On the other hand, keeping the Shah in power in Iran was totally ignorant, offensive, and immoral.

What may be surprising to you is that a lot of Americans don't want us to be the world's policeman. Many Americans are isolationists. I'm beginning to feel that way about South Korea. Polls show rising animosity among Koreans for America, but they still want our protection from the North. If polls ever show they don't want us there, then I'm all for leaving, but I don't think its at that point.

Who was going to nuke China? I'm sure that Chinese leaders had 'plans' on when and how to nuke the US, shall I now say that 'China thought of using the bomb on the US'? General MacArthur wanted to attack bases in China that were supporting the North Koreans but was not allowed to by the President. He was relieved of his command, the greatest American military leader of his time, for being 'too aggressive' and crossing the 38th parallel. Therefore, how close do you think the US was to using the bomb on China?

Kindly don't bring up slavery as a defense for protecting Chinese status quo. No one here will defend it, and its from our past. To twist it's use, which ended about 125 years ago, into something that means we don't support democracy, is laughable. (There are actually current examples that are much more worthy of discussion, e.g. Saudi Arabia, which are debated here, but your analogy was an embrassingly weak).

Regarding N. Korean and nukes. Fact: they are a repressive regime. Fact: the Chinese government (yours) has gone on record supporting a nuclear-free Korean Penninsula. Fact: since the armistace was signed, the US has never threatened to attack N. Korea. Fact: they agreed to halt their program in return for oil (i.e. extortion), but secretly restarted their development program, long before the US referred to them as a member of the Axis of Evil.

That's all for now. Have fun.

 

I never said amercian were evil to fight in to suppoort south vietnam i always question why u american dunt see this is that if u amercians really stick to your belief why didnt american fought the north viet con until every last men, why did the amecian governemnt lost support from public???!!!why did tey retreat??? that is selling out the south vietnamese!!!
second u american seems to like to think china is a threat to the world, and think china threaten to invad another country , but i am sorry the places u all mentioned are not countries but part of china, this is fact, tibet is part of china, taiwan is part of china, china never threaten to invade another country like usa did for any reason!!!
one more things is not me thinking the amercian sold out taiwan most chinese in taiwan do feel this way, why, the nationlist government in taiwan was reconginze as offcial china n it was member of united nation, but after usa started diploma relationship with prc they gave up taiwan , taiwan is no longer a a un memeber and has no formal relationship with usa ! now from supporting the taiwanese side government with military supplies n ecnomies to not reconigze taiwan as a country , this is selling out! u can ask some taiwan chinese about this! american offered chang kai sek the nationalist gobvenemnt in taiwan help if they claim independent after they flee to taiwn from mainland but chang refused , this is one of the reasons why later the amercian gave up on taiwan!!!!

 

I don't Think china is a threat to the world at this time
about vietnam we signed a pease treaty with the north in 1973
and left the problem was that north vietnam broke the treaty
and sent their reagaler army into the south in 1974 before we left
vietnam they would send malisha after us and the problem was the viet kong looked and wore clothing like civalians it makes a war vary diffacult to win and when we would kill the enemy it would look like we were killing inosent people so you don't know who is a frend or who is going to kill you after about 5 years of
the war most americans were agenst it and our suport in south vietnam vanished that is why we left

 

You answered the charge of 'selling out' yourself, fatfatcow. If what you say is true then the US wanted to recognize the Nationalist government as an independent entity. They refused. Its ridiculous to assert that we therefore have an obligation to continue to try and install the Nationalists BACK on the mainland over the objections of the populace. However, despite the fact that chang kai sek was dillusional and actually thought he was going to somehow take back over on the mainland, we DID stand by him for another twenty years in relation to the UN etc, and we DO STILL CONTINUE to guarantee Taiwan's security from the PRC threats, and we DO STILL CONTINUE to guarantee Taiwan access to the largest economic market in the world. If your friends ever 'sell you out' like that I think you'll be in pretty damn good shape.