Well then the same ethical reasoning holds for male circumcision in America. There rarely are medical reasons for performing the procedure; personal preference or religious values of the parents usually underlie the request. I guess that needs to be "forcibly changed" also?
oh....... You equate female cicumcision to male circumcision? ........and, you defend giving drugs to 4 year olds?? I feel like such a fool to have continued this debate with you. You are as dumb as a box of rocks.
No I'm on record as recognizing the rule of law while you're advocating ignoring the law and imposing your morality on freedom loving Americans. T4 is leading mob justice, nice!
I promise that this is is my last post in this thread, I don't care how t8675439r2d2 tries to insult me next. I knew this would be your response. I did not equate the two, just compared them. My point was that male circumcision (can this be the last time I use word in the clutch bbs? please?) is accepted within our society because of culture. There rarely are medical reasons for performing the procedure; personal preference or religious values of the parents usually underlie the request. I think if male circumcision (damn it, said it again) was a new practice starting up by some cult in Conroe, people would freak out and probably would try to have it outlawed. But it is accepted due to culture. And people do not want it to be "forcibly changed", and I don't blame them. "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. " Obi-Wan Kenobi, Return of the Jedi BTW another group tried to "forcibly change" our culture on Sept. 11, 2001.
Are you really this narrow minded? Or are you just tryin to get a response? No one has the right to impose their value systems on other people. Certainly not you. Definitely not me.. As long as people are not hurting other people, they should be allowed to do as they please within the framework of the law.. Do I advocate giving peyote to a 4 year old? No...he is not of an age to decide what is best for him..Do I feel that the father is doing this so he can feed his son peyote? No... Juan explained basically how I see it..This case has nothing to do with peyote persay...it is about his right to oversee his son's religious upbringing. Don't waste your breathe attacking me for my views...I will not respond after the way you attacked others for expressing their views..I just wanted to have my say.
Well, my parents said they thought Sunday school would be good for me. I've learned to forgive them over time, after years and years of helpful peyote sessions.
What a stupid argument. Using your logic, the men at NAMBLA should be able to have sex with underaged boys. Think man!
I DO think...I think that if you really believe that it is your *right* to impose your value system on another culture or on other people period...then you and I will never see eye to eye. I may not agree with their actions, but I will never try to force someone to abide by my beliefs. You are taking my position to a illogical conclusion by that assertion.. Think for yourself, quit quoting back Rush to me..
So, you don't agree that a 4 year old American child may be irreparably harmed by being forcibly dosed with mescaline, but you don't want to get involved because we have to "respect" their religion? Have you people lost your minds?? Any religion that harms children is not worth protecting. This is not a religious freedom issue, this is a human decency issue. I am done in this thread, but I am disheartened that this little boy's psyche may be permanently damaged because the adults in charge of his world didn't have enough common sense to protect him.
So we can say that the boy won't be forced to do anything, which is still better than my parents making me attend Sunday School at the same age. Finally, I'd like to know more about the ceremony and the dosage before I judged the practice. If it's sort of like a kid sipping one milliliter of wine (blood of Christ, etc.), then I wouldn't have any problem with it at all, especially since the little kid isn't being force-fed. By the way, I was forced to drink a sip of wine in this way. Not that I really care or really think it's a big deal, but I think it adds perspective.
No problem; I probably overreacted. I think it was the "How arrogant" part that seemed -- well, was -- a personal attack. But I've been insulted enough around here that that should just roll of my back. I think the distance between your position and mine is that you are seeing the Native American culture as a separate entity from the rest of America while I see them as an integrated part. In terms of self-determination, I think the Native American, the white, the black, etc are all playing a role in the same whole. If we decide peyote is allowable in religious rites it is something we've all done together, expressed through an act of Congress. When you say you don't think it matters if "we" sanctify their culture, it puts a barrier between us that I don't think is legitimate. Obviously there is some barrier between us -- this is especially true with Indians and their status as nations within a nation. But, I wouldn't erect it so high as to say I should not have any say at all in whether Indians use peyote, just as I cannot claim that Indians should have no say in whether I smoke mar1juana. This is an area in which those inside and outside the Indian nations are united in common legislation.
