I just wanted to add figures on average income per person instead of families since it seems we're struggling to agree on the two parent family issue. For 2001... Average income for all races: $32,099 Average income for whites: $33,049 Average income for blacks: $24,092 http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/p04.html And if you look at the stats by race and gender. I highlighted the portions for men which are startling. I think sexism may play a role in the differences in the genders however it's hard to gauge since most stay at home parents are women and not men so that might throw those numbers off a good deal I dunno. Avg for Men: $40,859 Avg for women: $23,602 Avg for white men: $42,311 Avg for white women: $23,837 Avg for black men: $27,685 Avg for black women: $21,215
interesting the way they tie in Rockets assistant Keith Jones. a good read on this issue Athletes not only role models in sports By JONATHAN FEIGEN Copyright 2002 Houston Chronicle The day almost always comes when young legs cannot outrun reality, and imaginations have their limits. Kids shoot in the driveway and call themselves Kobe, and that's great. But then they find out they cannot be Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson or Steve Francis and try to figure out what else they can be. Then on Wednesday, Robert Johnson became an answer. Johnson won the right to bring an expansion team to Charlotte, becoming the first African-American majority owner of a major-league sports franchise. It would be great if kids could see a doctor, teacher or police officer and find role models there. But kids often look to sports. Some will now see Johnson, a wildly successful businessman who looks different from the other billionaire owners, as a role model. If sometimes people need to see role models who look like themselves, more will now. They might never grow to seven-feet tall or to be able to do chin ups on rims, but Johnson can offer another example that they could achieve their goals by being smart and working harder. That's what pioneers do. They demonstrate what can be. "That's my whole thing in talking to kids, interns, minority kids, kids of all colors," said Rockets vice president and trainer Keith Jones, who in 1990 became the first African-American trainer in the NBA. "Everybody wants to be a player, but there are so many other things you can do. "My passion was sports. I wasn't good enough to play. I had to use the talents I had. There are so many ways to be involved. That needs to be exposed to kids. I wanted to be involved in sports. This was my niche." To get there, he had to work harder and be smarter. Jones said his father Henry told him to be the first would not come easily, but the bigotry he would face and sacrifices he would have to make should not be accepted as excuses. "My dad said it would be harder because I was black," Jones said. "I knew that going in. He said I would have to work harder, but if don't do it, it would be my fault. It was on me. "Everything is possible. There is so much opportunity out there. It doesn't come easy. I was working, filling up water bottles and my so-called friends call me `water boy.' I was working long hours for free. My buddies were having fun, hanging out, going to frat parties. I was in the training room, making ice bags, scrubbing floors. And it was all worth it." In his first job, in 1983, Jones was paid $55 a week and slept in a Veterans Stadium storage closet. This summer, Jones became Rockets Vice President of Basketball Operations. Last week, Johnson, founder of BET, became an owner. And if there is a kid who cannot see beyond a basketball court to find a role model, they are right there, even if neither can jump. "If anybody thinks it's not a big step forward, here's a guy that worked hard, that wanted to be in this position," Jones said. "It shows other people it can be done. It's not closed off. You can achieve what you want to achieve at the highest level. I admire him more for his sacrifice, for doing the things it took to own a team, to be one of only 30 owners." Johnson might have paved the way for the next billionaire to become a sports owner regardless of his skin color. But like any pioneer, he might do something much greater. Every time someone is the first, he clears a bit of the path for someone to be next. Johnson did more than provide another opportunity for billionaires. He might have offered another example for anyone who needs one.
Timing I tried to reply to all that, but its just too much for me right now. I still have a pounding headache from last night when I got plastered, but I have a lot to say about what you said.
You can't just look at all women vs all men. Many women work part time or in jobs with low pay like retail to get flexable hours & this lowers the overall average. If you look at men vs women in similar jobs the numbers are virtually identical. I'm not going to touch the race arguments. Here in Charlotte I haven't heard much being made of the fact of Bob Johnson's race. Most folks are just happy that a team will be coming back. Right now the big debates are about what name the team should have and what the colors should be. There have been a few discussions about what the team should do with draft picks and in the expansion draft, but that is a long way away yet.
Originally posted by Vanderbilt_Grad You can't just look at all women vs all men. Many women work part time or in jobs with low pay like retail to get flexable hours & this lowers the overall average. Well if you mean women get flexible jobs more often than men in order to tend to their families then I agree that's a factor and I even said so above.
Originally posted by Timing Originally posted by robbie380 It most certainly is chicken and egg and even with your assertion I've still shown that there is a huge difference. You want to compare two parent households without addressing why two parent households are so rare in the black community. You want to pretend that every family has had the same opportunity to become a two parent household when whites statistically don't deal with the same issues of poverty, racism, and disenfranchisement. Ok the way you want to explain children born out of wedlock as a function of racism, but how can that be so? The huge rise in children born out of wedlock has occurred after the Civil Rights Act. I don't know why two parent households are so rare and none of those things you mentioned such as poverty, racism, and disenfrachisement serve to block people from getting married. Another graphic from the census. As you can see, even with the Civil Rights movement, affirmative action, etc. there is still a huge gap between white income and black income. Blacks even have less income than Hispanics which is staggering considering the amount of low wage earning Hispanic immigrants that come to this country. Yes, but if you want to compare two people one black and one white with the exact same educational background who get the same job. You will see that the two people will make the same amount of money. It means that the opportunity is there to be on a level pay scale as whites and if it doesn't happen then the company will be sued like no tomorrow. My roommate who is black and goes to the business school at UT certainly makes a hell of a lot of money. Also, affirmative action has done NO good in helping to equalize the pay between blacks and whites. The difference between the two is exactly the same as it was when affirmative action started. Well you're talking about Gary Indiana I presume. It wasn't Gary...I need to get the book. You have not researched this issue very well at all. Again from the Census Bureau. I can't find that chart that goes back into the early 1900's however at that time the rate of single parent households was 30% in the black community and 10% in the white community. Still roughly three times the number of single parent households which is about what it is today. Slave owners intentionally broke up families, white-washed their culture, and prevented them from acquiring a basic education. Then throw in lynchings, racism which prevented voting/work/education which in my view is the root of poverty in that community, then the assasination of strong black leaders (MLK, Malcom X, Medgar Evers, etc.), and what you have is a disintegration of a community. Ok well I showed you the stat where it was 24% for blacks in 1965. So its not like that '3 times the white rate' trend kept going on from the 1900's. Second, yes slaveowners did break up families, but they did not whitewash their culture. Not to sound rude, but have you ever studied anything about slavery in America? It is pretty well known that the slave owners did not have much contact with the slaves, especially in the plantation style gang labor places in the south. The foremen who did have that contact were not all white and did not try to change their culture. I explained all that before. They could not 'white-wash' their culture because they lacked the ability to since there were so many slaves and so few white people. African culture was not killed during slavery and its not like blacks had no culture during slavery. I explained this stuff before. Anyhow, there were very few attempts to educate the slaves or integrate them into white culture since it was illegal, so they were not 'whitewashed'. I don't know...I could go on forever about this but you are just wrong about this part. I can accept your numbers about the other stuff, but you are wrong here. Also, when you talk about how black leaders being assassinated that doesn't mean a movement will die. Its not as if the push for civil rights died with MLK Jr.'s death or as if the black Muslim movement died with Malcolm X (who was killed by his own people for learning the truth about Islam and not the racism the black Muslim leaders preach). The opportunities for black people are there today and wide open. You see Asians, Indians, and Hispanics taking full advantage of America. Its not as if white people are blocking blacks from doing anything anymore, so this comment about black leaders dying doesn't explain why poverty would exist. It is a completely different issue. If there were no black leaders today then you might have a point, but there are and the organizations those people worked for still exist. In fact, they probably have a hand in keeping black people apart from whites since the leaders today often manipulate race for their gain. Even if race relations aren't perfect it doesn't mean people can't make money, because all the doors are open for people of all races to get jobs with equal pay. What points? Don't you ever wonder why blacks are commonly referred to as "African-Americans", while other races/ethnicites/cultures are Italian-American, Mexican-American, etc. The majority of blacks don't even know what country they're originally from. How can you say that their culture has not been stripped? How many Ugandan-Americans or Kenyan-Americans do you know? Most every American, except black Americans who are not post-slavery immigrants, knows who they are, where they're from, and what their heritage is about. If slavery and racism aren't the flashpoint for the drastic differences between the black community and every other ethnic/racial community in this country then what is? What is different between blacks and everyone else other than the history here? I've already shown you the statistics regarding wealth, income, and single parent families. At some point you just have to say yeah, that's the difference. Does it even matter that black people don't know their country of origin? That doesn't create their culture. Black American culture has its roots from the slaves, Africa, and America. They have been here much longer than Italians and Mexicans. They been here as long as Anglos and you don't see Anglos commonly looking back to their English heritage. Hell you don't see many people looking back on their old immigrant past after they have been in the country for more than 3 generations. I don't know why you keep saying culture has been stripped from black people, but it just has not. Read books and you will see slaves were full of culture. Also, just because you know your past doesn't change who you are. I know that my ancestors came from Scotland, but does it change how I live my life or change what I do? NO. Further, knowing your nationality does not mean much, because most slaves did not have a nation to come from. Nation building in Africa is more of a modern phenomenon. If a black American wanted identify their origin then they would have to look past nation if they wanted find where their slave forefather was from. They would have to find that slave's original tribal group. I really don't know if much of this makes sense, because I am just writing. However, you told me I didn't do my research, but you haven't done a lot of research either. I never said there was no difference between blacks and whites all I said is the gaps are closing fast and there are very few barriers, if any, for black people to attain success today. Also, these points you made on culture are just wrong. You need to do some reading about slavery and slave culture.
I wasn't talking about culture. I'm talking about economics. I'm talking about hooking a brother up when you have it good. Asian and Jewish people do this blatently. If you ever been in new york or any other city with a large jewish communities, you will notice that there are large businesses where every employee is Jewish. You notice how the Jewish people pretty much own the entertainment industry. Same with cities with large Asian populations. You just don't see this as much as you should within the black community. Colin may be all for affirmative action when he is talking to the press but does he help other black people get into high ranking positions. I haven't seen it. I've seen Oprah do it but that is more of an exception than a rule. I've met many corporate executives at very large companies and I see white executives hooking friends and relatives more than I see black executives. I don't know why this is, I just telling you what I have observed. One place where this is changing is the music industry. Black artist are forming their own labels and are hooking each other up. The black community needs to do this all fronts in order to get their due.
Originally posted by robbie380 Ok the way you want to explain children born out of wedlock as a function of racism, but how can that be so? The huge rise in children born out of wedlock has occurred after the Civil Rights Act. I don't know why two parent households are so rare and none of those things you mentioned such as poverty, racism, and disenfrachisement serve to block people from getting married. The proportion of white children residing without two parents increased by 124 percent from 1960 to 1990, compared with a 96 percent increase among blacks. http://www.ipums.umn.edu/~ruggles/strib94.html If you can't get an education because of racism, are forced to unemployment/crime or even a terrible job where you're the first person fired in poor times because of racism, and along the way you just might end up dead from a lynching or a murder because you're black then what do you think that would do to your ability to raise a family? When you can't vote your candidates in and Jim Crow laws are passed then what do you think that does to your ability to raise a family? When you're poor because you have no education due to racism what do you think your ability would be to pay a poll tax or pass a scam literacy test at the polling office? You're not really thinking about the cummulative effect all of this has on people. Yes, but if you want to compare two people one black and one white with the exact same educational background who get the same job. You will see that the two people will make the same amount of money. And how are you proving this? You really want to compare two races and pretend that they've had the same educational opportunities in the past and present. That's the problem. It means that the opportunity is there to be on a level pay scale as whites and if it doesn't happen then the company will be sued like no tomorrow. My roommate who is black and goes to the business school at UT certainly makes a hell of a lot of money. Also, affirmative action has done NO good in helping to equalize the pay between blacks and whites. The difference between the two is exactly the same as it was when affirmative action started. You really have no idea what the current situation would be without affirmative action. You can say it's done no good in helping to equalize pay and I can say it's kept the difference where it's at instead of making it worse. The truth is we need more than affirmative action to close the gap. Ok well I showed you the stat where it was 24% for blacks in 1965. So its not like that '3 times the white rate' trend kept going on from the 1900's. Actually yes that trend has kept going. For 80 years, from 1880 to 1960, the proportion of black children living with a single parent held steady around 30 percent, according to the new research by the University of Minnesota. During the same time, the proportion of white children living with one parent stayed at about 10 percent. But in recent years, those figures have climbed - to 63 percent for black children and 19 percent for white. http://www.ipums.umn.edu/~ruggles/strib94.html Second, yes slaveowners did break up families, but they did not whitewash their culture. Not to sound rude, but have you ever studied anything about slavery in America? It is pretty well known that the slave owners did not have much contact with the slaves, especially in the plantation style gang labor places in the south. The foremen who did have that contact were not all white and did not try to change their culture. If I prevented you from learning, from keeping family continuity, from practicing your religion, from ownership, deprived you of your history, art, language, foods, traditions, and at the same time emphasized my superiority over you, the inferiority of not only your heritage but your race, your dependence upon me to live, etc. what the heck do you think that would do to your culture? Your denial that slaves had their culture destroyed is just incredible. Also, when you talk about how black leaders being assassinated that doesn't mean a movement will die. Its not as if the push for civil rights died with MLK Jr.'s death or as if the black Muslim movement died with Malcolm X (who was killed by his own people for learning the truth about Islam and not the racism the black Muslim leaders preach). The movement was damaged and leadership in the black community has suffered while people have tried to fill the void. The opportunities for black people are there today and wide open. You see Asians, Indians, and Hispanics taking full advantage of America. The insinuation that blacks aren't taking full advantage of America is not only ridiculous, some would consider it racist. You're playing It's a Wonderul Life with me here. This is about equity, not cliches. Its not as if white people are blocking blacks from doing anything anymore, so this comment about black leaders dying doesn't explain why poverty would exist. It is a completely different issue. I didn't say poverty exists because of the death of black leaders. I said the deaths have contributed to the disintegration of the black community. Every community needs leadership and most black leaders today have either succeeded in marginalizing themselves with idiotic statements/actions or been marginalized by the angry white male phenomenon that seems to have a rising tide in this country. If a problem involving race comes up, it's just "them" complaining again. If there were no black leaders today then you might have a point, but there are and the organizations those people worked for still exist. Name one black leader who has credibility with or support from a significant portion of Americans outside of the black community. Kweisi Mfume is the only one who has that with me and most Americans probably don't have a clue who he is so I doubt you could think of one. In fact, they probably have a hand in keeping black people apart from whites since the leaders today often manipulate race for their gain. There really aren't problems, it's just a manipulation. This is a typical attitude today. Does it even matter that black people don't know their country of origin? That doesn't create their culture. Culture: The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought. Here is the definition of culture for you. I'll let you figure out how your country of origin can determine culture and how without that knowledge a culture is lost. Black American culture has its roots from the slaves, Africa, and America. They have been here much longer than Italians and Mexicans. They been here as long as Anglos and you don't see Anglos commonly looking back to their English heritage. Hell you don't see many people looking back on their old immigrant past after they have been in the country for more than 3 generations. I don't know why you keep saying culture has been stripped from black people, but it just has not. Read books and you will see slaves were full of culture. This is getting comical. Anglos don't look back at their English heritage? Oh boy. The culture was OBVIOUSLY stripped from them and a new slave culture evolved which included poverty, lack of family structure, and no education. Not so suprisingly today, the African-American community is about the most poor, least educated, and has the highest incidence of single parent families. You ever heard of African-American food like Italian food or Chinese food or Mexican food? Don't think that's a part of culture? How about religion? Catholicism among the Irish and Hispanics. How about language? Italian, Spanish, German, French, Chinese, but what language is for African-Americans? These things are culture. Also, just because you know your past doesn't change who you are. I know that my ancestors came from Scotland, but does it change how I live my life or change what I do? NO. This forms how a lot of people live their lives. Wake up dude. Further, knowing your nationality does not mean much, because most slaves did not have a nation to come from. Slaves didn't know where they came from? They didn't have communities and leaderships and traditions and identities? That's fresh. I never said there was no difference between blacks and whites all I said is the gaps are closing fast and there are very few barriers, if any, for black people to attain success today. You've failed completely in showing how any gaps are closing fast, how there are so few barriers, and how African slaves didn't have their culture stripped from them.
My stats say that the median income for black two parent families is $41,307 compared to $47,000 for whites. I just wanted to go back to your statistics about median income for two parent families which is not possible. These numbers are for 2001 and assumes that both parents in every household work full time which is definitely not the case, further punching holes in your numbers. Median income for white men: $30,240 Median income for white women: $16,652 Two parent median: $46,892 Median income for black men: $21,466 Median income for black women: $16,282 Two parent median: $37,748 http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/p02.html The income gap between whites and blacks has nothing to do with families and everything to do with the incomes of white and black men. If we were to do an average income for two parent families the gap would be even larger.
Michael Powell is the Chairman of the FCC. He's more of a Republican big business ******* than his dad is...
A great site for Affirmative Action..has articles/info both for and against http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/
It's just an entertainment television that likes the word "black". They show whites too!! A lot!! But like the word "black" like black and blue black SUV black Cow
