Being in NYC, this is only the third game I've seen this season. I've had to just go by what I've read in the papers and here and everything else, so it was refreshing to see the guys myself. I feel like I've some of my questions answered by the game tonight. There are some things I noticed. The offensive spacing was horrible. Yao often hovered around the top of the key setting picks that were almost never used. What’s up with that? Yao sets good (humungous) picks, creating great opportunities for Francis and Mobley to slash to the hoop and get to the free throw line, but instead they consistently went the other way, away from his picks, accomplishing nothing. If not around the three point line Yao was trying to establish the low post, much too far from the basket. I don’t understand the technique employed here either. In the other two Rockets games I've seen this year (Dallas and Indiana, lucky me) each time Yao established great position, close to the basket, by flashing down from the high post or from the weak side to the low post where he received quick entry passes as soon as he hit the spot. Tonight he didn’t cut to the low post, he just propped himself out there so far away from the basket that his toes were on the Rocket’s emblem on the wing 10-15 feet from the basket. The passers were also ill positioned, with their heels on the three point line, no spacing at all (Moochie was the worst at this, though the others didn't do great either). Once they passed the ball in to Yao, it only got worse. The post passers, once relieved of the ball, didn’t seem to know what to do, whether to fade out towards the top of the wing beyond the three point line or cut to the hoop. Furthermore, once they decided to cut (more often than not) they seemed horribly uncertain about where to cut, which direction. Often the passer/cutter would fake one way or another (either to the baseline or through the lane) without committing, wasting time on the shot clock and several times actually cutting right at Yao, bumping in to him and not creating any kind of separation from the defender. The very first play of the game showed what Yao could do when he had space and only one man on him, spinning easily to the baseline when Thomas overcommitted. When the passer/cutter gets so close to Yao, it creates a virtual double team on the big man, so he can’t put the ball on the floor and the cutter is useless that clumped in. Where was that nice two man game that I saw from Yao and Francis versus Dallas and Indiana? Note: before anyone goes off on Rudy, I think it’s impossible for us to know for sure why the offense looks like it does. I can tell you that when I played in college, there were numerous times where we’d call a timeout, set something up, and then players (freshman and sophs mostly) would go out there and do something totally different – not because they were headstrong, but because they were inexperienced, jumpy and tentative and reacted poorly to pressure (granted, we were a horrible team). You see that skittishness less and less with more experience (unless you’re Clifford Robinson in the playoffs). Anyway, this may have nothing to do with their problems, I’m just pointing out that it’s not as simple as having an offense and automatically implementing it. Regarding Francis (after reading a lot of postings here about his point guard abilities), he certainly has point guard instincts and passing skills, whatever his scoring abilities. He drove and kicked all day very effectively (mostly in the first half before the entire offense collapsed in the second half) giving Rice and Griffin nice open looks from outside (perfectly delivered, chest high every time) – he can’t do anything about their strokes. He also made that great ally-oop to Mobley going left and towards the baseline and passing right (think of a quarterback doing the same in football. It’s hard.). The only part in his game that is occasionally deficient is when he forces erratic passes (essentially bailing out) off failed or confused penetration, leaving his feet without a clear path to the basket. This leads to turnovers and fast break opportunities for the opposition. Still, there’s no reason to think that this isn’t something he can overcome in time, with maturity, and I see it a lot less from him when the offense is working, when he’s not trying to take over and lead the Rockets back from behind. Because the Knicks didn't have a penetrator at pg, I can't comment about his man to man defense (Jason Williamson scoring and all that, etc.), but his team defense looked really sharp (getting steals intelligently, when opportunity arose, not taking lousy chances). This is also the first time I’ve been able to see Eddie Griffin play a lot of minutes. It’s funny, for such a shoddy performance, I came away rather impressed. Understand, the guy’s got mountains to climb to improve the gaping holes in his game, but the same way that you can’t teach Yao’s height, Eddie’s got a nice physical package that, if developed properly, could also become a great advantage. His inconsistent shooting isn’t about a lack of talent. He’s got a very nice touch and I think he could become a excellent shooter if he corrects a few things. Mostly notably, he seems to have difficulty getting his feet under him on his jump shot. I noticed the first time that he shot from three he dragged his right foot and didn’t get set before he shot. I thought it was just a bad shot, but he did this same dragging of the right foot every time he set up outside for a shot, so I guess that’s just the way he shoots it. I think if he learned to get his feet set each time (watch Rice, no one better) and got some pop under him when he shot the ball, you’d see him shoot more consistently. The thing that is so promising about his offensive game is that he is so long and can jump out of the gym (and quickly too). When he puts that together with his shooting touch and learns some footwork in the post (yeah and 15-20 lbs of muscle), you’ll see him just jump over people in the post a la Rasheed Wallace. You see right now, despite his hops, he often seems to rush his shots in the post, because he fails to get seperation from the defender with a fake, a bump, a hip check and stip back, etc. It's all learnable. Whether he’ll ever play D like Wallace remains to be seen. Anyway, those are just some thoughts.
I wish people like you posted more. Great post! ... but I ain't callin' no other dude "delicious" (Kings of Comedy reference).
4 words to summarize your points. Bad chemistry and inexperience. But whatever Don Chaney's plan was, it worked and the Rockets did not have a contigent plan to save their butt.
totally agree with glen. at this point, i think rudy t should have some more coaching job to do cos we, the fan can see that obviously.
Wow. If only more jr.members posted thoughtful, insightful, masterpieces like this instead of mind-numbing, space-wasting, paragraphs of nonsense.
I noticed the spacing problem when I watched the Miami game. It was indeed horrible. I think everything started with the Miami game. Two things Brian Grant did: 1. push Ming further away at whatever cost. The first touch Ming got, Grant just threw Ming down the floor. 2. Grant intentionally parked outside the paint on offense to draw Ming away from the basket. It is quite effective as the Heats guards just penetrated. But since Brian got into foul trouble, the strategy can not maintained. Riley is a master on defense, since then, everybody is copying from him.
Yeah and there's all kinds of things you can do to bust up what Brian Grant did if you have the proper spacing. I just don't understand why they have it one game and don't have it the next. It defies understanding. Inconsistancy is your shot being off one day, not forgeting from where on the floor to make an entry pass. Mooch - I was a 6'5" center on the Division III Bard College team.
Put this in the game thread. Just kidding, for it is too good and deserves it's own. Besides, DoD is having problems remembering things at his age, so if he's cool with thread, then it's no problem. Great, great, great, great, post by the way. Thank you. Oh, and didn't you hate it when Mobley started to cut from the 3pt line and Yao delivered the pass when Mobley decided not to follow through with the cut. Basic basketball...the Rockets need Hubie Brown.
Well, Yao missed training camp. Guys started to learn this center-oriented offense from mid November. I won't expect them to be a master on this. I think the transition is a little bit too fast. It made guys confused. I expect everything to be okay after the all star game.
Former Blazers fan or Suns fan? Great post Glendel! I liked the description of Eddie, especially the money comment about EG's lack of separation in the post. Is Pete Newell's big man school open to power forwards? It does seem strange that the people on offense were so lost in the game. With young players, it's certainly to be expected. But I think Rudy's still got control over youthful mental mistakes. If he sees somebody not being in the correct position or "lost in space," he's gotta get a veteran in there who knows what to do. Of course, this is assuming the veterans know what to do out there.
That was awesome Glen. This is what I like to see, people who actually know about basketball telling us what they see wrong and right. Not just mindless "trade this guy," "move that guy," "sit this guy," and "start this guy" crap that we read every day. I don't know much about b ball since my only organized experience comes from one year of junior high and high school ball, but I noticed some of the same things you did, basically that Yao was setting picks that were pretty useless and that he was not getting good post position as well as that Francis looks to pass more than people give him credit for. The Knicks claim that their plan was to keep Ming out of the paint, so I don't know if Ming's positioning has been our team's problem or other teams playing good tough D. Anyways keep em' coming Glen, guys with insighful post like yours remind me why I love this BBS.
This issue has been at the back of my mind as well. It is obvious to me that while Yao's a big man and has a decent lower body, he often has trouble getting good position on the blocks. I've thought, why not just run him across the lane with a pick - this play is essentially 50% of what made Karl Malone possibly the greatest offensive PF ever - the other 50% being the pick and roll. I've heard Rudy's comments on 610 addressing this issue and he kinda mentioned he didn't think it worked, or something to that effect?? The team does have the double high post play which ends up with Yao posting up in the middle of the lane with good position, but most of the post plays to Yao involve him setting a pick for the wing passer to get open (at the same time being pushed out further by his man because Yao is not concentratign on getting himself good position) and simply turning around. Secondly, I think that Francis should be the one delivering more of the passes. Mobley and Yao don't seem to have good timing, combined with the fact that Mobley seems to need to have held the ball for a short while before being effective offensively anyway. Francis, on the other hand, seems to make much better, sharper cuts after kicking the ball in, and I think if Yao is pushed to far from the post, he can just pop out to run a pick and roll, and Francis seems to run it effectively. Players I'd like to see with the entry post are Francis, Posey and Moochie (who also seems to have a good feel with Yao)
"flashing down from the high post or from the weak side to the low post where he received quick entry passes as soon as he hit the spot." Glen, the Rockets are not able to achieve this type of action on a CONSISTENT basis b/c the guards simply do not have good passing instincts. It requires great anticipation, understanding, feel for the game and bball IQ to be able to pinpoint passes like that on a consistent basis. The odd thing is that the Rockets have had some of their better performances in achieving this type of action during their two most notable national TV games (Dallas and Indiana). Over the course of the entire season, though, the offense simply has not flowed consistently. Considering you live in the NYC area, do you get to see a fair amount of Nets games? If so, notice that the Nets run a similar 5 man offense in the halfcourt to the Rockets except they get MUCH easier looks. They are more easily able to do what you are discussing (finding frontcourt players in the post flashing across) b/c they have much more instinctive passers. Ever since Jason Kidd arrived on the scene, it seems that his mentality has spread to his other teammates and they really understand the principles of making the pass for the easy score and finding teammates in their comfortable positions. Compare this to the Rockets 5 man game. The vast majority of the time, the Rockets 5 man offense finishes with Yao catching the ball at the top of the key and dropping it off to a guard to run a screen and roll play. The types of results where forwards and big men receive the ball in a one on one situation close to the hoop simply do not exist in our 5 game but do in New Jersey's. I feel this is b/c the Rockets guards lack the feel for the game that has been pointed out for the last 4 yrs on this bbs. Also, on your point about Francis. Steve does make drive and dish plays, but you have to realize PG skills are based on his ratio of good ones to bad ones. Over the course of this season and his career, Steve has not been able to make enough good reads (penetrating and finding a wide open shooter) to set off his bad ones (going it alone and driving into a wall of defenders causing a turnover). You can see that in the fact that he averages 4 TO per game in relation his 6 APG. That is a 1.5 Ast to TO ratio and is abosolutely horrid. Combine that with the fact that Moochie and Mobley being in the same area in that category and you see why this team is so inconsistent. A big part of a successful NBA offense esp in this day and age deals with players esp guards making smart reads and smart passes on a consistent basis. If that doesnt happen consistently the offense gets stuck in neutral far too often.
I don't think Rudy is a very good tactician. The guards have played the ISO way too long to believe it won't continue unless something dramatic happens. In order for the Rockets to win, 2 things need to change. 1. Cuttino cannot be the starter. No way will he fit within the offense. He's not a pure shooter. He needs to create his own shots to be effective and he takes too many jumpers. He would be great off the bench but as a guy who plays 40+ minutes, he's a liability in the offensive scheme. 2. We need better and more consistent production from the PF. Mo Taylor is not a good rebounder and EG's offensive game is way too erratic. Unless Rudy recognizes these 2 main deficiencies and adjusts the lineup, gameplan, whatever, this team will continue to be inconsistent.
This is definitely one of the best "critique" threads I have had the pleasure of reading since joining CC.net. I do want to point out to Glen that while we were seeing these problems to a certain extent before K.T. departed, his absence has emphasized the Rockets lack of a 1-on-1 low post scoring presence. Yes, Yao Ming can score "if given the ball, but he does not have the ability to create his own shot yet!!!" K.T. - unlike Yao, Mo, or E.G. can put the ball on the floor, get to the basket and finish. He scored consistently from 16 ft, and in, all the while going TO THE BASKET. What we saw prior to the trade was K.T. getting off in the first few minutes of games, which would make teams have to honor the Roc's inside game. Then, S.F. and company could go to work slashing and shooting from the perimeter. And, while I gravely lamented the trade (and still do), I did not expect such a HUGE fall-off in our offensive fluidity. Our recent drought also serves to underscore the other point I made about Rudy's lack of offensive coaching talent. The guy could coach defense to anyone, but I don't think Rudy has ever really understood how to coach an offense and get the most out of his offensive weapons. He has been saying ever since Steve got here that he would implement a "motion" offense and "get out and run". Unless we get a steal at the top of the key, there is no running game, and certainly nothing that even remotely resembles a "motion offense!!" I get what Glen said about "not being able to just automatically expect everything you say in a team huddle to happen on the court", but these are PRO'S!!! They are supposed to be able to deal with pressure and perform at a high level. The trade of K.T. has exposed several flaws in the Rockets: The unbelievably horrible passing and lack of a team concept. Cat's selfishness on offense. Rudy's limitations as an offensive coach. (Hakeem only served to mask those limitations because of how good he was). If this team does not make the playoffs, or for that matter, get higher than an 8th, seed, Rudy needs to be shown the door, and someone with a legitimate offensive resume needs be brought in. In fact, I will go even further and say that like Dave Campo and the Cowboys, even if there is great promise, you can not have three consecutive losing seasons (and in the NBA it's a losing seaon if you don't make the playoffs), and expect to survive another year. Rudy has more talent than 2/3 of the teams in the league and still cannot seem to pull it together.
I wouldnt blame everything on Rudy but he should be held accountable when players continue to do the same thing over and over. Whether by design or it just happens because everything starts breaking down, it's his responsibility to make the adjustments. How many times have we seen Yao get the ball, look around for someone to pass to while everyone else is standing around, eventually dumping it to Steve or Cat at the top of the key where they force a jumper with 5 seconds left on the shot clock. This happens way too often. In the past people didnt realize Yao could actually pass so they would lazily stray away from the cutter. Now when the player slashes to the hole, he gets doubled teamed. Opponents have made the adjustment not to leave the guy closest to Yao. I can understand that James Posey is new and it may take some time for him to adjust to the offense. However, the other players need to move around and at least try to get open. They run a play and if it doesnt work in the first 10 seconds, everyone freezes while the guards just dribble the clock away and either force a bad shot or drive straight into the teeth of the defense. This is not any one individual's fault. However, Rudy needs to take charge instead of standing there dazed and confused.
I agree the problems you stated do exist in Rox. But in this stage the good coaching is all the more important than anything. Many teams we lost to are just mediocre teams. I don't think they have better lineup than Rox. We cannot impute the loss VS Knicks to our players. Do you think the starter lineup - Yao, Francis, Cat, EG, Rice - is actually less capable than that of the Knicks? A good coach is the one who improves the team based on the existent resourses, but not a one who only depends on acquiring good players. Do you think the lineup of Blazers is not oustanding? But they still loss to many mediocre teams with normal quality lineup. We can win the Kings, Spurs. Why can't we win Knicks? It is just the problem of coaching, as Glendelicious's post implied.
If we beat the Spurs, Kings, and 76ers, why is it the coach's problem when we lose to the Memphis Grizzlies and New York Knicks? He's good enough to beat those good teams but lose against bad teams? Our players do not try hard enough and are too arrogant when they play against crappy teams. Young and inconsistent.
