How would handle this situation of church & state?

Prayer has no business at a school function. What you call it does not matter.

Similarly, if it's not a prayer, calling it an invocation is harmless.

 

Not a big deal, to be honest. As an atheist, I'm all for a seperation of church and state but little things like this only hurts the cause. Instead of focusing outrage on what they call a commencent ceremony, we should focus resources on fighting teaching creationism in schools (comes up a lot) or calling America a "Christian Nation".

 

I agree with this to a point. Fighting the 'a Christian Nation' issue is important.......but I think smaller issues like this do 2 things. First, keeps the school districts from being pressured and over-run by the religious right. I have seen it personally with my Kids in DoD schools overseas....if you step away and allow little things to slide.......the religious move right in. Second......instances like this just add fuel the fire in the fake 'War on Religion' BS people love to use. That whole 'War' arguement is such a joke.

 

Ya it's not a big deal if there is no prayer. I don't understand why people always want to sue over hearing something. If you don't believe in it, does it really hurt you if you hear it?

There shouldn't be prayer in school, or at least not a uniform prayer, I am all for a time during class for people to pray, if it necessary.

 

I would destroy the government school.

 

My son graduated last night. There was a prayer to begin the ceremony. The valedictorian mentioned his "Lord and Savior" several times during his WONDERFUL speech and received a standing ovation when he finished.

 

War on Christians indeed!

 

Did they change the opening remarks or just what they called them? Was the invocation actually a prayer?

Invocation isn't purely a Christian word or even a religious word, even if it has religious roots in this particular usage. By objecting to the use of the word on religious grounds, a secularist surrenders a whole word (and a cool one at that) out of their vocabulary to the Christians.

So, I can understand objecting to prayers in the invocation, but not to the word itself.

 

Word.

 

Did he thank Santa Claus? Because Santa Claus probably gave him a lot of good presents when he was a kid.

 

Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

 

To me it is not so much about the word. It's the message conveyed by the words.

 

I agree with you on your first point, particularly if you have the majority of the students with families that identify themselves in some capacity as religious. I also agree that we should not teach creationism in schools. im not advocating this, I'm simply making an observation; all things being equal, the majority of Americans do identify themselves as Christian. If it wasnt for the institution of Christianity, such as its various sects (baptist, catholic, etc), would being labeled a christian nation really be that bad? In other words, if the tables were turned and the majority of Americans identified themselves and atheists, and atheism would it be as controversial to call ourselves an atheist nation?

 

I agree with you on your first point, particularly if you have the majority of the students with families that identify themselves in some capacity as religious. I also agree that we should not teach creationism in schools. im not advocating this, I'm simply making an observation; all things being equal, the majority of Americans do identify themselves as Christian. If it wasnt for the institution of Christianity, such as its various sects (baptist, catholic, etc), would being labeled a christian nation really be that bad? In other words, if the tables were turned and the majority of Americans identified themselves and atheists, and atheism would it be as controversial to call ourselves an atheist nation?

 

I didn't care until you asked. It pushed me to look a little closer at the definition of the word itself. Going by that information I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't raise a stink about it either. In the end I agree with others that if the "invocation" doesn't actually entail prayer of any sort then it wouldn't matter.

 

Who cares, if the word offends you show up fashionably late.

 

First I would save time by calling it 'Sturch'.

 

How would that crowd have reacted if the valedictorian was Muslim and thanked Allah?