I nominate this thread as one of the hardest to read in the history of this BBS. Yeah, I'd like to apologize for that. I'm getting used to this board. Gen, any points you may make are marred by your horrible presentation of them. Again, sorry. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
But, this thing about the Mavs getting the 6th spot? I kept putting the Jazz and Kings ahead of them and then my friend convinced me that the Mavs would win more games than the Jazz. But maybe Donyell will work out there. Come on now...you're just joking right? Cuban and Nellie are making a mockery of professional bball with that joke of a team their slapping together with has beens, never will be's, and flat out scrubs. Other than Finley (who I agree is top 3 in SF's) and perhaps Nowitzki, everyone else on that team is marginal at best. They have no NBA-caliber PG, SG, or C who would start on most other teams. Stockpiling 15-16 average players and adding a r****ded coach does not get you the 6th spot in the West. And by the way, Dallas may have had a better winning percentage than Hou last year, but you must also take into account all the injuries, transition of new offense system, and 7 new players Hou had. I think Hou and Dallas will probably compete for the 8th/9th spot in the West this year. I don't know..... Courtney can play, Trent's a good banger, Etan looks good. But I agree they should have kept Ballos. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
1) There's nothing Over-Optimistic about thinking the Rockets have a shot at the playoffs. I agree. But many if not most on this BBS think they have much more than a shot. 2) On Paper, the Mavs look pretty good. But then again on paper the Blazers were so absolutely superior to the rest of the league last year they should have just canceled the season all together They had a great regular season record though. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
>>Yawwwnn! By Peja, I assume you mean Predrag Stojakovic. Good shooter, little else. Doug Christie? Yeah, sure, you're really reaching now. Divac? He runs hot and cold and should be moving past his prime just in time for the Kings to decline.<< That's not too bad a supporting cast for possibly the best power forward in the game. >>Starks is nowhere near the clutch player Hornacek was and Marshall and "their rook" may be decent, << Why'd you put quotes around those two words? Do you hate slang or something? >>You haven't addressed why this loss for Laettner wasn't a step in the wrong direction.<< I agree, they should have kept Ballos. >> still out on that. Besides, Collier or Thomas probably won't see a whole lot of minutes this first year anyway, so the point is moot.<< If Collier is better, why did Houston want Thomas more? >>As I said, I am from the University of Florida and Harvey is not now, nor do I honestly believe that he ever even has the potential to be as good of a defender or rebounder as Rodman. He is still light year away in both categories. Incidentally, he's about an inch shorter and 40 lbs lighter to Rodman, since my initial criticism was about his weight and height.<< I think Rodman is shorter than you think. He was shorter than Bird. The young Rodman wasn't exactly thick either. The guy can rebound, don't take that away from him. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
If Collier is better, why did Houston want Thomas more?-GEN If Houston wanted Thomas more, how come they just didnt pick him? Thomas was picked 12th by Dallas, and Houston could have killed the trade with Milwaukee and just drafted Thomas. If you think that Etan is one of the reasons that Dallas improved so much over the offseason, then you must also think the same of Collier. Collier should thrive in this offense, if he plays at all. Both Collier and Thomas prolly wont play that much first year though anyway. >>Yawwwnn! By Peja, I assume you mean Predrag Stojakovic. Good shooter, little else. Doug Christie? Yeah, sure, you're really reaching now. Divac? He runs hot and cold and should be moving past his prime just in time for the Kings to decline.<< That's not too bad a supporting cast for possibly the best power forward in the game.-GEN That's a good point, but I think the reason most people believe Rox will get to playoffs is becuz THEY ALSO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD SUPPORTING CAST FOR POSSIBLY THE BEST PG IN THE GAME. ------------------ president of the dan langhi fan club. [This message has been edited by alaskansnowman (edited September 04, 2000).]
>>If Houston wanted Thomas more, how come they just didnt pick him? << They thought he'd be around at Milwaukee's pick. >>Thomas was picked 12th by Dallas, and Houston could have killed the trade with Milwaukee and just drafted Thomas.<< Uhh, it doesn't work that way. They picked Pryzbilla for Milwaukee. -GEN I understand your point, but if they really wanted Etan Thomas badly, then they would never have agreed to draft Pryzbilla for the Bucks and just drafted Etan Thomas at 9. But there's no point in discussing this as neither Etan/Collier wont make a big impact their first year. But in their future years, you never know. Collier is bigger + has a much better offensive game than Etan does. ------------------ president of the dan langhi fan club.
>>Uhmm . . . Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are easily still better than Webber, << Easily? Webber certainly had a better year than Duncan last season. >>so that would make him the 3rd best PF in the league. Of course, Houston has a pretty nice supporting cast for arguably the 2nd or 3rd best PG in the league, so I don't believe the Kings are a lock for the play-offs.<< As awesome as Francis is, is he really as effective as Chris Webber? Or Gary Payton? >>I have nothing against slang, but Utah is in worse trouble than I originally thought, if they actually have to depend on DeShawn "the rook" Stevenson for any signifcant play this year.<< I was "offended" and it made you look like a "jerk." >>And the loss of Ceballos was a far greater loss than the gains of any rookies they picked up.<< I don't know... Ceballos really wasn't needed. I think they should have kept him, but at some point they had to clear playing time for Alexander. >>Bird was 6'9" tall, so yes Rodman was shorter at 6'8". Harvey can rebound, that's true, but don't compare him to Rodman in the category,<< So how tall is Harvey? >> because the 2 aren't even in the same league. You are sadly mistaken, if you truly expect Harvey to ever have a 17 rpg average. Also, Harvey is not even half the defender that Rodman was. The only thing he has going over Rodman is a better attitude.<< If you're judging by how the players are now, then Collier is an unmitigated disaster. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
>>I understand your point, but if they really wanted Etan Thomas badly, then they would never have agreed to draft Pryzbilla for the Bucks and just drafted Etan Thomas at 9. << They could have picked Collier at 9 as well. They didn't. They gambled and hoped Thomas would be around at Milwaukee's pick. >>But there's no point in discussing this as neither Etan/Collier wont make a big impact their first year. But in their future years, you never know. Collier is bigger + has a much better offensive game than Etan does.<< A nice way to say that Collier can't defend... ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
>>If Houston wanted Thomas more, how come they just didnt pick him? << They thought he'd be around at Milwaukee's pick. >>Thomas was picked 12th by Dallas, and Houston could have killed the trade with Milwaukee and just drafted Thomas.<< Uhh, it doesn't work that way. They picked Pryzbilla for Milwaukee. >>If you think that Etan is one of the reasons that Dallas improved so much over the offseason, then you must also think the same of Collier. Collier should thrive in this offense, if he plays at all. Both Collier and Thomas prolly wont play that much first year though anyway. << >>That's a good point, but I think the reason most people believe Rox will get to playoffs is becuz THEY ALSO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD SUPPORTING CAST FOR POSSIBLY THE BEST PG IN THE GAME.<< Webber's a more valuable player than Francis at this point. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
Uhmm . . . Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are easily still better than Webber, so that would make him the 3rd best PF in the league. Of course, Houston has a pretty nice supporting cast for arguably the 2nd or 3rd best PG in the league, so I don't believe the Kings are a lock for the play-offs. I have nothing against slang, but Utah is in worse trouble than I originally thought, if they actually have to depend on DeShawn "the rook" Stevenson for any signifcant play this year. He's an athletic project, but brings little else to the table. And the loss of Ceballos was a far greater loss than the gains of any rookies they picked up. alaskasnowman covered this one pretty well. Besides, I'll say it a 2nd time (3rd if you include alaskasnowman saying it) : Thomas and Collier won't see major minutes this year, so since we're talking about making the playoffs this year, the argument on who is better is still moot. Bird was 6'9" tall, so yes Rodman was shorter at 6'8". Harvey can rebound, that's true, but don't compare him to Rodman in the category, because the 2 aren't even in the same league. You are sadly mistaken, if you truly expect Harvey to ever have a 17 rpg average. Also, Harvey is not even half the defender that Rodman was. The only thing he has going over Rodman is a better attitude. ------------------
"Better year"?! Webber: 38.4 mpg .483 fg% 24.5 ppg 10.5 rpg 1.60 spg 1.71 bpg 4.6 apg Duncan: 38.9 mpg .490 fg% 23.2 ppg 12.4 rpg 0.89 spg 2.23 bpg 3.2 apg How do you figure Webber did better? I'd almost call it a wash, except for the fact that Duncan led his team to a better record than Webber. Well, Gary is the guy I consider the best PG in the league for now, he just doesn't have the chemistry and supporting cast for his team to be considered a playoff lock. And yes, I do believe that Francis is proving himself to be every bit of the franchise player that we expect him to be. The difference between him and Webber is that Webber is at his peak now. Francis is still improving and his play is already arguably approaching Webber's level rapidly. Actually, I doubt 99% of the posters on this BBS would find quotation marks offensive. Now being called a "jerk" or an "over-optimistic fan" from a fan of a perennially losing team, that had one decent year in the last couple of decades . . . well, there are some that might find that offensive. Fortunately, I'm not that sensitive. Laettner isn't needed either, so it is still a step in the wrong direction. Also, why get rid of a SF to make room for a SG? Since you're so high on Etan, why not keep Ceballos and leave room for Etan? I believe that he was measured at 6'7", but based on seeing him in person, I believe that he is shorter (Mike Miller is 6'8" and seemed to have at least a couple of inches on Donnell). How is this a reply to why Harvey should never be compared to Rodman? Had I said something stupid like Collier was like a young Sabonis just because he's tall and shoots 3's, then you would be well within your right to criticize what a silly comparson that was. I merely pointed out how inaccurate it was to label Harvey another Rodman. Try something like a skinnier, though more athletic, Danny Fortson without as much defensive ability to describe Harvey and I'll agree. Anyway, I believe this exchange has gone on long enough and we'll have to agree to disagree. I am impressed that you made an attempt to answer every single poster in this thread. You probably passed TheCat for the record in number of replies to his own post ------------------
>>And yes, I do believe that Francis is proving himself to be every bit of the franchise player that we expect him to be. The difference between him and Webber is that Webber is at his peak now. Francis is still improving and his play is already arguably approaching Webber's level rapidly.<< Webber IS at his peak now. He's also a more valuable player NOW. So when you compare their supporting casts you have to factor in that Webber is a more effective player. >>Laettner isn't needed either, so it is still a step in the wrong direction. Also, why get rid of a SF to make room for a SG? << Because Fin can play the 3. >> Since you're so high on Etan, why not keep Ceballos and leave room for Etan? << How would keeping a small forward clear room for a power forward? >>How is this a reply to why Harvey should never be compared to Rodman? << Harvey IS similar to Rodman. I'm not saying he's at that level yet, but I'm assuming he'll improve. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
Gen~ I still think that your signature is sick humor at best. Children DO come to this board and Do participate in the conversation. You have every right to laugh at what you want to laugh at but that kind of humor is unacceptable in front of young ones. I will never "lighten up" when chidren are involved. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust
I cannot find fault with anyone who quotes the Onion. That being said, I doubt Gen had much of an idea that children do much posting here. I have to admit, it's news to me. And if they do post here, doesn't that mean they are more than usually enlightened? ------------------ Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me...you.
Gen, I guess Dennis might be right, but gosh that signature is funny. On the Rockets chances: Ignore last year's record. Most of those losses occurred during the early part of the year, before chemistry occurred w/ the primary 4-6. I'd only be afraid right now if Rudy came back from Sydney and said "yippee, Dream is going to be a, no the primary force on the team". Spppooookkey. I'm one of the weirdos that I think you're alluding to. I'm a geologist by training, but I like to enjoy things NOW. I have to expect that this team will do well this year, otherwise what's the point in watching? It's not w/o some rationale though. Houston is the only team that played the Lakers & Blazers at a 2-2 record last year. Add that to the fact that the reason that the Blazers have "cinched the title" (according to TSN) is the Kemp acquisition (you know him as the guy that Cato blocked 8 times in one game last year) and I think the Rockets will do okay this year. The Kings: They don't have J. Williams for the first 5 games this season... nice way to establish chemistry. This is apparently his third infraction. Since he's not a quick learner, he may very well be kicked out of the NBA sometime soon. The Sonics: Vin Baker is playing really well in Oly. training camp. Hopefully Rudy's charisma doesn't turn he & Payton into a cohesive tandem, because I think of the Sonics as one of the periphery teams. The Mavericks: You seem awfully enamored w/ their rookies. I am too. However, Nellie just announced that they won't be getting that much playtime this season. Pity. That story about D. Harvey rolling a bottle from one side of the car and picking it up out of the other door (does he drive a friggin' Yugo?) is astounding even if it is bs (it was his coach's quote in a florida paper though). The Suns: I only included this team because I wanted to call them the mini-Blazers. I truly consider them in the elite 4 w/ the Spurs, LA and Por. Dabnabbit they're good. Cut off a head and three grow in its place. If Googs wasn't such a wus, sheez... unstoppable. The Jazz: First off, one of their great off season moves includes Marshall. He plays the same pos. that their all star PF plays. Yippee. In spurts, I'm sure Malone will play the 5... so it's still a strong move, but it's a move primarily for the future. Also, and this has been said time and time again: Starks is no Hornacek. Hornacek shot a career 49% as a 2 guard. Simply amazing. Starks... uhhhh... are you serious? Total regression. I would think that their rookie 2 would get the start, but I was corrected while I was bugging CD: complimenting Langhi and trying to ask about Mobley. Jerry Sloan walked up and CD complimented the wonder-rookie Stevenson. Sloan said, and I quote "he's too damn young, I can't do anything with him". Amazing. It seems as if, barring any philosophy changes or injuries, the Jazz coach will hold them back. The Jazz team has always won with chemistry. Where is that chemistry now? Stockton to Starks? Clank. Malone to Starks (the new cutter). Clank. The biggest nail for the Jazz? Eisley's defection. Though Jazz fans haven't harped on this too much, Crotty and Vaughn signal doom for the Jazz. This team is a 38 year old knee tweak away from going on a 0-8 losing streak. Crotty will do well in spurts, maybe even winning a game or two himself... but this isn't the depth of a PO team. I can't wait to see Malone demand a trade yet again when he's looking in the backcourt at Vaughn and Starks/Deshawn. Hilarious. All in all? I see the Kings as the team most likely to fall into the abyss this year. Webber even said as much this offseason. I won't complain, though, when Payton ruins his own team's chemistry or when Starks man doubles down over and over again onto Malone. There are plenty of teams that are on the periphery... this isn't just about the eight spot. "Sure things" in the playoffs (barring any significant injury) Lakers Blazers Spurs Suns The lower four depend on alot more chemistry to even make it past the regular season: TWolves Sonics Mavs Rockets ------ Jazz Kings -honorable mentions/crappy coaches- Grizzlies Denver Notice, I did include Minnesota in that group. I do that because there are 12 teams in the west that could be competitive (given the fact that teams play ~4 games against their western counterparts and...). That is, that there will be a disparity this year in the better western teams and the fringe 4. The Blazers might hit the upper 50s and the lower 4 could be in the mid to lower 40s. This should be fun to watch. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited September 05, 2000).]
I hate to jump in here late but I would put C-webb in the same class as KG and maybe as Duncan. Duncan does have the ring but I think C-webb has as many skills as Duncan, just not the supporting cast. But I definetely think C-webbb is as good as KG, IMO. Also I think for the time being we are probably on the outside looking in at the playoffs. The Blazers, Lakers & Spurs are locks. The Suns & Twolves are the other 2 real locks (barring injury to Kidd or KG). That leaves 3 spots. I think they go to the teams with the best veteran leader(s) (Sonics with Payton & Baker, Jazz with Karl & Stockton, and Kings with C-webb). I think the Mavs & Rockets are waiting and it is indeed possible with an injury here or there (which could surely happen to a team or two). ------------------
>>It's not w/o some rationale though. Houston is the only team that played the Lakers & Blazers at a 2-2 record last year. Add that to the fact that the reason that the Blazers have "cinched the title" (according to TSN) is the Kemp acquisition (you know him as the guy that Cato blocked 8 times in one game last year) and I think the Rockets will do okay this year.<< I used to be a big-time Cato fan, but he just fell asleep a lot last year. >>The Kings: They don't have J. Williams for the first 5 games this season... nice way to establish chemistry. This is apparently his third infraction. Since he's not a quick learner, he may very well be kicked out of the NBA sometime soon.<< JWill is completely out of control. I think they should make Christie the point, but that's just me. >>The Sonics: Vin Baker is playing really well in Oly. training camp. Hopefully Rudy's charisma doesn't turn he & Payton into a cohesive tandem, because I think of the Sonics as one of the periphery teams.<< Rashard converted me last year... >>The Mavericks: You seem awfully enamored w/ their rookies. I am too. However, Nellie just announced that they won't be getting that much playtime this season. Pity. That story about D. Harvey rolling a bottle from one side of the car and picking it up out of the other door (does he drive a friggin' Yugo?) is astounding even if it is bs (it was his coach's quote in a florida paper though).<< Nellie's crazy. But I think the rookies will get playing time anyway because Hubert just can't play that much. But even forgetting their rookies, if Trent returns to form (which he'll have to with Thomas breathing down his neck) they'll have a solid lineup: Eisley/Nash Fin Nowitzki Trent Laettner >>The Suns: I only included this team because I wanted to call them the mini-Blazers. I truly consider them in the elite 4 w/ the Spurs, LA and Por. Dabnabbit they're good. Cut off a head and three grow in its place. If Googs wasn't such a wus, sheez... unstoppable.<< I feel they're contenders. I can't tell you how much I think of Skiles. Their transformation from Ainge to Skiles was wonderful. Will they play Googs at center? >>The Jazz: First off, one of their great off season moves includes Marshall. He plays the same pos. that their all star PF plays. Yippee. In spurts, I'm sure Malone will play the 5... so it's still a strong move, but it's a move primarily for the future.<< Marshall can play the 3. >>Also, and this has been said time and time again: Starks is no Hornacek.<< Marshall's the big acquisition IMO. I completely agree about Utah's backup PG situation. >>All in all? I see the Kings as the team most likely to fall into the abyss this year. Webber even said as much this offseason. I won't complain, though, when Payton ruins his own team's chemistry or when Starks man doubles down over and over again onto Malone. There are plenty of teams that are on the periphery... this isn't just about the eight spot.<< The Kings have a ton of problems, but man it's CWebb! The guy's unstoppable. >>"Sure things" in the playoffs (barring any significant injury) Lakers Blazers Spurs Suns The lower four depend on alot more chemistry to even make it past the regular season: TWolves I only have two question marks: how Wally's knees hold up and how well Billups can replace Sealy. Sonics The big question mark: Ho Grant? Mavs Rockets ------ Jazz Kings -honorable mentions/crappy coaches- Grizzlies Have they ever had a bench? Denver Even with a bad coach, McDyess isn't a star. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
the mavs??hahhahahaha come back here and talk to us GEN when they MAKE the playoffs... thats the biggest amount of diarrhea i've seen since i had that death taco in juarez... i lived in dallas up until recently..painful experience watching that team..and i am sorry the mavs are have been and always will be second tier to the rocks and also i would like to add are the rocks b*tch..pure and simple...facts show us that GEN they havent had a team since...ohh lets see tarpley?uuummokay? get out of here with those kinds of mavs takes that border on pure insanity.. right now you should be a little more concerned about the cowboys and the fact that a game in and their f-ing season is cashed...classic dallas myopia...i am sure your gonna tell me now that you guys really didnt need galloway right? whatever man... ------------------ I think people are forgetting that we are the rockets... WE DONT REBUILD...WE RELOAD....remember that..
Rockets fans have good reason to be optimistic. The 93-94 Rockets were not that loaded with talent but had an offensive system tailored to the strengths of their superstar and a team of role players who believed in that system. We have another unstoppable player in Franchise and a system which is tailored around that superstars ability to penetrate, draw the double team, and dish the ball for the easy basket. We also have, according to CD and Gene P, a group of players whose chemistry off the court is the best they have ever seen on a Rocket team in their entire careers. When Franchise makes that turn as a player, when his on the court decision making rises to the level of his native physical ability and basketball skill, then watch out, we will reign once again. Believe it!! (I know its kind of late in the thread for this post but this is my first and I had to find my password.) Out of cursiosity? Does anyone know how the 92-93 Rockets finished their season? How the second half of the season compares in W-L with 99-00. ------------------
>>the mavs??hahhahahaha<< They had a better record than the Rockets last year. >>come back here and talk to us GEN when they MAKE the playoffs...<< Did the Rockets make the playoffs last year? >>thats the biggest amount of diarrhea i've seen since i had that death taco in juarez...<< What about the thread on this board that said the Cato-Olajuwon tandem was better than Shaq? >>i lived in dallas up until recently..painful experience watching that team..and i am sorry the mavs are have been and always will be second tier to the rocks and also i would like to add are the rocks b*tch..pure and simple...facts show us that GEN<< What facts exactly? >>they havent had a team since...ohh lets see tarpley?uuummokay? get out of here with those kinds of mavs takes that border on pure insanity.. right now you should be a little more concerned about the cowboys and the fact that a game in and their f-ing season is cashed...classic dallas myopia...i am sure your gonna tell me now that you guys really didnt need galloway right?<< I'm not from Dallas nor am I a Cowboy fan. And yes, the Cowboys are going down. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
