I believe they were talking about Shanghai Sharks. So he is blaming low BB IQ of Yao's old teammaets.
Sane, I am simply pointing out that your statement above is false. TO's are always bad, no question about it. Most of them came from double-teaming of Yao and Yao passing the ball to teammates who did not anticipate. These TO's will do down alot when Yao get more used to double-teaming and chemistry develope between Yao and his teammates. If you don't see how Yao schooled/dominated Duncan in their last meeting, you obviously did not watch the game. Here is a <a href="http://www.************.com/02_12_03_vs_spurs.html">link for a detailed analysis of Yao vs Twin Towers. </a> Robinson did (or tried to) put a lot of defense on Yao, but it still did not matter. Statswise, Yao had 27 pts, 10-18 FG, 7-7 FT, 18 boards, 3 ast, 3 blocks. Duncan had 25 pts, 8-21 FG, 9-16 FT, 12 boards, 2 ast, 2 steals, 2 blocks. Yao had better numbers than Duncan in all categories except steals. Yao dominated the paint, on both offensive and defensive end. He altered lots of Spurs' shots, which does not show up in the stats. Also note that Spurs ran most of the offense through Duncan, while Rockets was still adjusting to play with big man. Duncan's quote after the game on Yao Ming: "He was impressive tonight. He's got a great touch and he's bigger in person than you think he is. He shot the ball better than I thought he could. We put our hands in his face and it didn't matter. He played great tonight."
Yao has had a history of high turnovers in his years in China. If I'm not mistaken, he averaged more than 3 turnovers a game. However, turnovers are expected when you're trying to work a big man--and a rookie big man at that into one of the main cogs in your offence. I checked Hakeem's turnover rate, and I was shocked and surprised that Hakeem averaged exactly around 3.0 turnovers for his CAREER. That's a lot of turnovers. When you have versatile big men like Hakeem, or even Yao, they tend to put the ball on the floor more often because they're so good with the ball. Unfortunately, big men cause a lot of turnovers, whether by losing the ball when they put it on the floor, or passing through too many defenders. Shaq's turnover rate is quite low for a big man. He doesn't put the ball on the floor a lot, and he usually handles the ball for only a couple of seconds--to dunk/score or to pass back outside.
The only wrong part about my statement was that he wasn't leading the league. But he did average 4 TO's which is horrendous. He's played 27 games with the Rockets, so after 20 games of playing with his teammates, he had a 4 TO/game stretch and it's ok? If he was adjusting, it would happen earlier. What's happening is that Yao has a soft spot where he holds the ball, right when he turns in the post, and the opposing PG always strips the ball from him. Yao did not, by any mean, school Duncan. Schooling someone means that you destroyed THAT PERSON on the defensive end, and destroyed that SAME person on the offensive end. Duncan had 16 FTA and only made 9. the severe hacking was what caused Duncan to go 8-21, and had he made 7 mroe FT's, he'd have 3 more points than Yao. Yao got the best of the Spurs, and out played Duncan in the game. But Yao Ming did not school Tim Duncan. Yao has historically, as LLJ said, been turnover prone. I remember seeing such high TO's for him in the Worlds, but I just assumed that it's ok since he has the ball 90% of the time. But that's not the case now. Yao is needs to simplify his passing out of the double team a little. Pass a bit earlier maybe. It's just a matter of time before he adjusts and we'll forget this whole conversation.
Look everyone of you guys before you start jumping on Yao about making turnovers why don't we get the "Real Facts" straight first. If you don't wanna compare guards that handle the ball and make turnovers and you wanna compare big men that turn the ball over why I'll give you these names as all of them have more turnovers this season than Yao. Glenn Robinson 107, Antoine Walker 96, Webber 88, Tim Duncan 87, Pau Gasol 82, KG 79, Elton Brand 76, Zydrunas Ilgauskas 75, Caron Butler 73, Olokandi 72, Shareef Abdur-Rahim 71, Karl Malone 69Jermaine O Neil 67, Antawn Jamison 67, Vlade Divac 65 and Yao Ming 62. I don't know why you all seem to pick this 7 game stretch to compare turnovers. Why not look at the entire season. 7 games is 7 games what whoever did over the last 7 games is not indicative of what is to come for the entire season. Granted, Yao played sparingly over the first 13 games or so but still Olowakandi has been hurt over the last 2-3 weeks of games and he still has more turnovers and Shaq has only played 18 games and he already has 52 which means he is averaging almost 1 more TO's a game than Yao at 3.46 a game compared to Yao's 2.55 a game. So enough about the Yao TO talk!!
We're looking at the past 7 games, because I feel that our team hasn't been playing well during that stretch like it was before that stretch. Still, Yao is slightly turnover prone, but it's not something he can't fix. He will fix it. But Yao's turnovers have been a factor in this mediocre 7-game stretch of ours.
OK, so if we wanna talk about the last 7 games of "mediocre" play. Why don't we stretch out 2 more games and make it 9 games where we beat the 76ers and the Kings and a great win against Indiana. Granted, he has had some TO's in the most recent losses but that is not the main reason for our poor play in all of the losses in the last 7 games. I still back him up and think he is the 2nd best center in the league already and we can't ask too much of him. I'm sure he will improve and this 7 game stretch is only that only a 7 game stretch. We still have an entire season ahead of us. No player in the history of the NBA has been through more than Yao has so give him some slack. If you wanna bring up his play for the Shanghai Sharks we really don't wanna go there because he was on another talent level than his teammates.
Turnovers are a problem for this whole team, but as other posters have stated in this thread; players who handle the ball more are going to have more turnovers. Does Yao have a problem holding on to the ball at times? Yes Has he forced a pass or two? Yes Do you still run the offense through him? Hell Yes Why? Because the positives will far outweigh the negatives. For every bad\forced pass, you will have a crisp\precise pass to a wide open team mate (who is wide open because of the attention Yao gets) who only has to catch the ball and put it in the basket. For every turnover, he will have an basket from a Shanghai Shake, easy lay-up, put back, etc. I too feel that with improvements in Yao's upperbody strength and team chemistry, the turnovers will significantly reduce. What I find really interesting is how defensive some folks get when a problem area for Yao is brought to the fore. It is so ironic how easily some blame others for Yao's turnovers, but when his fellow Rockets make turnovers it's their fault solely. For instance when Yao makes a bad pass or gets the ball stolen, it's his team mates fault because they have bad hands or a low BB IQ (hate that term now). But if it were Steve making the bad pass, it's just a bad pass that can be attributed to his low BB IQ. Hmmm? Do I smell a double standard here?
Lancet, Just to clarify, I know there were a couple of instances where Yao matched up with Duncan, but for the most part, Yao and Duncan did not matchup directly with each other in that game. Yao did most of his damage against Robinson and Willis. Also, the only time that Yao guarded Duncan on defense was on a switch off (again, happened a hand full of time), which is how he got his block on Duncan. I just wanted to point this out because I feel its very unfair to say Yao dominated Duncan. This did not happen.
I think several factors play into this: 1. You can excuse rookie inexperience over a guard who's played in the league over 4 years. 2. Someone who is always looking to pass will always get the benefit of the doubt when they make a turnover vs someone who makes a turnover while trying to create his own shot. 3. Some (not all) of Yao's turnovers are attributable to the cutting players bad hands. What Yao will learn is not to pass to Hawkins or T. Morris because they cant finish. Very rarely will Steve or Cuttino fumble one away. 4. Communication is an issue. In the heat of the game communication may be an issue so we should cut him some slack. When you have an all star guard SG playing PG who is known more for his scoring than passing, of course people will blame him more than the rookie who has played 26 games with a language issue. If Yao continues to make 4 or 5 TO's a game 4 years from now, people won't cut him as much slack.
actually it is an interesting topic, but once again, someone has decided to get overemotional and sensational in their topic subject line. Yao's turnovers are a bit high, but nothing to panic about. Many of the turnovers come from having his pocket picked, especially over the past 10 games. Teams are studying him more and where he positions the ball and how to pick him. As they learn, he will adjust too......Remember when he did not put his hands up and would reach a lot. Notice how he does not do this now and teams have a tough time in the paint on him...He is like Kung Fu...walking the earth, just learning as he goes Besides, he is the King of Pain, not turnovers....
Francis is not the same PG he once is.... the look for his own shots PG.... he is now more of a pass first PG, though not as much as those PURE PG some ppl here are craving to have in this team, he is passing a whole lot more than last time..... I just dun understand why everyone will still jump on Steve when he actually makes nice passes like the 'High BB IQ Ming'...... but yet, he is always blamed for turning it over while Ming TO's is due to teamates butterfingers..... keep in mind that although Ming is a rookie, he has as much experience as Francis in terms of professional basketball....... though of course not NBA basketball.....
Riet, I'm always willing to give players that bring more positives than negatives slack when it comes to their weaknesses whether it be a rookie or a ten year vet. I just find it interesting how some attempt to excuse away Yao's turnovers. Let's take yours for instance... If Yao was your typical rookie I would almost agree with you on this one, but he isn't. Yao has played professional ball for several years (definitely longer than the four years your typical college senior plays). He has also been lauded for his above average knowledge of the game and fundementals, not something characteristic of your typical rookie. Oddly enough something said about Francis applies to Yao as well: "To those who much is given, much is expected". You may give them the benefit of the doubt, but to me, a turnover is a turnover. I don't care if you were looking to pass or to shoot, that is just one less possesion that the team has. If the coach feels the player is worthy of playing time, then who is Yao to deem whether or not they should be passed to. If any NBA player is open and cutting to the basket, they better see the ball. Also, isn't what you're suggesting something like the favoritism that some have accused Francis and Mobley of? Suggesting that they only pass to certain players. I thought the goal was to get everyone involved. Now this one we can agree on. Poor communication can lead to turnovers.
4 years at a Top Division 1 school is just as good if not better experience than playing in the Chinese Basketball Association. Did you watch the World Championships? Those guards were horrific - and theyre the best of the best in the CBA. Other than Wang and Mengke Bateer, who are NBA scrubs, how many in that league are legitimate NBA players? The CBA is not in the same universe as the European Professional league. And as far as International play, the international game is materially different than the NBA in both style and rules. So excuse me if I cut him some slack playing his 26th game in the NBA. A high BBall IQ has led him to play as well as he has which has mitigated his inexperience. Turnovers, more than anything else, is due to inexperience. That is idiotic. Jason Kidd averages more turnovers than almost anyone in the league. He's considered the best PG in the league because of the opportunities he sets up for other players. If he was turning the ball over constantly while dribbling to the hole creating his own shot, I guarantee you he would be soundly criticized. Here, youre applying the double standard. If the wide open player is Terrence Morris and he sucks how can you blame the passer if Morris fumbles it away. On the one hand you're telling him to pass to the open guy, on the other hand youre blaming the passer for the other guy's incompetence. What's happened is Rudy knows T. Morris and J. Hawkins are offensive liabilities. Why do you think we traded for James Posey?
I think he's turnovers will come down eventually,, he is a great passer,, sometimes he tries to pass when he gets pushed around a little so I think that as his body develops,, his turnovers will go way down..
