Does anyone else get tired of people saying the old time athletes are better???

you cant compare eras, like other posts have said its that the sports technology, and the training is so much advanced now, also some of the rules are different, so you cant tell if they could fix their style according to the rules or not.

 

Centers dont market as well as guards...doesnt really have to do with skill or homerism.

Hakeem was the best center of his era and arguably the 2nd best player in the 90s...yet, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Payton, Clyde, Penny, Hill, Barkley, Malone, Kidd, Hardaway, Reggie Miller, etc... all got more press than Olajuwon.

It has very little to do with skill...and more to do with the fact that kids grow up wanting the ball in their hands, like a guard or forward...rarely do you see a 12 year old that wants to do post up moves.

So yes, Jordan was more skilled than Hakeem...yet, that doesnt take away anything from Olajuwon because I wouldnt put any other player in the 90's ahead of Hakeem as far as skill is concerned.

 

It's not to take anything away from Olajuwon. There's just people who really feel that Olajuwon was more skilled around here. It's pathetically sad how people can be so homer. I guess every fan base has homers, I just feel we have a lot. We have some of the worst sports fans. And it's not just about this, it's about a lot of things. I'd rather just leave it be.

 

This is enough of a "transport" of modern to the old times. They sure looked slow and small then.

Or maybe Sweet River was just way "ahead" of this time

Spoiler

Michael Jordan in classic SNL skit
{RIP, Phil Hartman}

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I myself didnt see anything about skills in those comments.

Its Wilt Chamberlain that said "Everybody pulls for David, nobody roots for Goliath".

I'm thinking thats the theme meant with "People by Jordans, they don't buy Dreams".

 

Those particular comments were aimed at tinman. Not at the original post I quoted.

I get what was said though now, I misinterpreted it wrong the first time.

 

thanks for thinking about me.

I know you are younger (i know others on this board) than me and haven't experienced those early 90s.

Hakeem was a center and Jordan was a guard. Dream was quick enough to guard Jordan. He was center with guard skills, which was more rare than a guard with superior guard skills.

But your logic is wrong on why he sold more shoes. I grew up in Houston, people wanted Jordans since they first came out. They were better shoes and were considered fashionable.

I like Hakeem better yes, I'm a Rockets fan. But Nikes are better shoes, it's obvious since I don't think Etonic is in business anymore.

the popular shoes have always been Nike, the Barkleys, Pennys, etc.

 

so when was I the biggest homer on the board?

The Rockets of the 80s and early 90s had no problems beating the Bulls of that era, Dream dominated their front line. Didn't matter who the guards were, Sleepy Floyd or Vernon Maxwell, the Rockets had the upper hand.

Did I think Dream was the best center of his era? yes.

It's not Dream vs Jordan. It's the Rockets vs the Bulls.

None of this equates to thinking that Etonics > Nike.

but for some reason you may thing that's they way I think

but since you are on that topic...
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Fans get enamored with the athletes they see from the ages of 12-20 years old. Most of the time people will say the greatest of all time is someone who was at the top of their game in that time frame.

 

Not sure what head-to-head has to do with anything about individual players and skill. The point I was trying to make with that post was, you'll see nobody outside of Rockets fans rank Hakeem higher than Jordan skill-wise. And that isn't because of his popularity either. I wasn't arguing anything else.

 

You realize they play completely different positions right?
How do you compare Peyton Manning to Barry Sanders?
You can compare Drexler to Jordan, and yes Jordan was more skilled cause they played the same position.

My perceived homerism is based their teams playing head to head in the 80s and early 90s. History showed that we destroyed their front line and were the worst matchup for them. If history was different, then I wouldn't say that.

The late 90s Rockets teams were not as good as the early 90s. I personally believe the late 90s Bulls were better than the early 90s Bulls.


Ok, well I was just pointing out your argument for the popularity of the shoes was wrong. Jordan shoes were a phenomenon that unbelievably is still popular today. At that point in time, there was no such thing as $100 sneakers. But Nike made a superior product with superior marketing. I find it similar to how Starbucks came up with $4 cup of coffee. Before then, people never paid that much for a cup of coffee. It created it's own demand for a 'superior' product.

As far as the overall thread. For baseball, I invalidate the roid era. If you gave Babe Ruth roids, he'd turn into the incredible Hulk.

 

I don't recall discussing that here before...I actually disagree with you. I think the 1993 team (that faced the Suns in the Finals) was the best team the Bulls ever had, despite the fact they won 72 games in 1996.

 

I disagree. You add Kukoc(borderline all-star) and Rodman(Hall of famer) to a great squad. That 96 team was just sick.

 

Chris Rock V Charley Chaplain.

Debate.

 

Going to have to say this is pretty spot on.

 

How does one define skill?

Jordan and Dream are both dominant players, clutch players, great offensive players, great defensive players, even wow players, but they played different positions in different systems and had different expectations.

For example, Jordan was part of the Bulls' defense and he played it very well. The Rockets' defense was built around Dream and he played it very well.

Jordan was a guard and had the ball in his hand much more than Dream, who depended on perimeter players to feed him in the post. Dream took some ridiculously difficult shots, as did Jordan, though Dream was probably closer to the basket on average. Over his career, Dream averaged 17 FG per game and shot .512. Jordan took an average of 23 FG per game and shot .497. Not a huge difference there, though again, Jordan's were probably further away while Dream's were closer... but Dream was also more likely to be double-teamed when in the post than Jordan on the perimeter.

Looking at all Top 10 NBA seasons for the basic skill categories (PPG, RPG, SPG, BPG, FG%), Jordan had 20 and Dream had 39. Looking at all Top 10 NBA seasons for all the categories that Basketball Reference tracks, Jordan had 211 and Dream had 233. Subtract for turnovers and fouls, it is Jordan 207 and Dream 222... however, because of the positions they played and let's face it, the rep of Jordan, it is expected Dream would commit more fouls

So, was Jordan really the more skilled defensively, offensively, all-around? Filter out the hype and I don't think it is as clear-cut as some Jordanaires would like to believe and really, it's a stupid thing to argue about.

They both redefined their positions. There are only a handful of players in NBA history that can legitimately make that claim and I was fortunate enough to watch them both.

 

Well, maybe I'm getting older, but there are some annoying things of CF TO get tired of, take your pick

On redefining positions, I think Hakeem did more redefining at his position. Though most of its cuz there was more room for the center spot TO have things redefined. Wilt had great assist totals, and Kareem the soft touch sky hook, but bigs have mostly been stiffs. Its still to Hakeem's credit that he was the one to do those things.

Its mostly Hakeem's steals numbers. (They didnt keep track of steals in the old days, though-) Still its amazing that if you only rank point guards on the all time list steals ranks, then insert Hakeem, only 4 point guards all time would have more steals. Its like having both Mutombo with a little bit of Rajon Rondo.

Jordan's specialty was being shooting guard as primary fulltime ballhandler. He made LAYUPS and body control more than dunks the art form. Though a lot of things at the swingman position were done before him, like with Oscar Robertson and Dr J. So its not as breaking "new" ground. But he just did everything so much better.