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Distractions aside, the American economy is doing quite well recently, no?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, May 1, 2012.

  1. Northside Storm

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    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...manufacturing-increased-to-54-8-in-april.html

    Contrast that with the austerity boondoggle in Europe.

    I suspect a rash of irrational threads have been built, in desperation, to try to stifle discussion of this very fact.

    I'm sure, for amusement's sake, we can all drag out certain posters saying "it's all on the economy".
     
  2. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    The numbers might look good, but America is a democracy. It's all about perception.

    Unemployment is still higher than most Americans are comfortable with, and gas is hovering around $4 per gallon. Romney could easily paint the economy as still bad, and refute the numbers by saying:

    "It may be good for you and your Wall Street cronies, but it's still hurting for us folks who work for a living."

    But yes, in terms of pure economic indices the economy is improving and austerity is proven ineffective.
     
  3. Northside Storm

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    Considering, as I must emphasize again and again, that we witnessed the greatest financial crisis in 70 or so years, caused by private-market failures, I'd say the public sector did a remarkably good job holding everything together.

    Unfortunately, the work is nowhere near done. The big banks who first plummeted the economy into the drain are now even bigger. They will have to be carefully regulated or perhaps even broken up.

    Still, all in all a reasonably good job.
     
  4. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    LOL @ Romney talking about working for a living.

    Shorter Romney

    "Obama hasn't cleaned Bush's mess up fast enough"

    Don't think it'll fly
     
  5. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    I don't have enough confidence in the American electorate. All it takes is a clever way to twist his life story, and right away he can make the above argument.
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    And all Mr Obama has to say is "Am I talking to gov Romney or GOP candidate Romney?"
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    And I hope he says exactly that.
     
  8. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    Until Romney counters with a witty quip and calls Obama a wall street crony or a socialist or a foreigner. Or says "death panels". Whatever works.

    Catch-phrases and image. That's what most elections come down to. If Romney has a good spin artist, we better watch out.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    unemployment levels are a national disgrace

    ...and check the balance sheet, not just the income statement...
     
  10. Northside Storm

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    Hah, bringing accounting into it?

    Yes, I agree. Private market failures that may have shifted the natural rate of unemployment up are a national disgrace. Their effect on the "balance sheet" (which in this case can run to 500:1 leverage and still have idiots buying up the "risk-free" bonds but I digress) is disgraceful. Romney's encouragement of a relapse of this behavior is abominable. He cannot be elected, if only for that reason.
     
  11. MrRoboto

    MrRoboto Member

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    Why do you want the economy to fail? Do you hate America?
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    this literally made me LOL
     
  13. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    Take out the drag from state and local government downsizing and it looks pretty good.
    LOL @ austerity
     
  14. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

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    Its simply incredible how much of an influence mainstream media has on voters. The idea that Fox News and its affiliates are able to seduce millions of voters into dogmatic GOP-sheep is just disgusting. Same goes for the other side as well (which, no surprise, isn't as bad as the right).

    I think I'm more scared at the inability of Americans to think for themselves. Their inability to think objectively, as well as their inability to fact check and consider possible biases from their sources. If Americans were simply more educated, it would not matter how corrupt politics were.

    Of course a more educated America means a more liberal America. Something the right won't stand for.

    Anyways, I digress.

    Its clear that austerity measures won't work, and that Barackonomics albeit slow is working. How the right continues to fight for HISTORICALLY and FUNDAMENTALLY bad economic practices is beyond me. Didn't work in the Great Depression, didn't work in any of the panics of the gold standard era, and it didn't work in Britain just now. Why would you fight for failure?
     
  15. Gutter Snipe

    Gutter Snipe Member

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    Wait, what? You are arguing that socialist economic policies, which have failed for most of Europe, are the way to go? Talk about fighting for failure!

    We are about this close to going off the debt cliff. At least one credit rating agency downgraded our rating again. (Might I mention during the Treyvon thing so no news media brought it up)

    Frankly, I think Romney is little better than Obama, he's just not quite as much of a socialist and won't reverse any key policies anyway. (It's not like he wasn't hand-picked by the globalist people and propped up by the media) My bet is that whoever wins, we won't get out of the debt spiral. The only thing it will change is which party wins the next election.

    Do you guys really think, really really really think that our choice of president will change much? It's a scam. We still have 4,000 lobbyists in Washington, most of the bureaucrats are living large off of your dollars, and the government is spending money at a record pace. Until we get term limits and kick most of these leeches out of the government it won't get any better.

    But go ahead and believe if you must that voting out one corrupt politician and replacing him with another will make your life better.

    Believe that more and bigger government is just there to help you and they want to do the right thing.

    Believe that a "fair" society is one where everyone has the same things.

    But how much in taxes are you willing to pay before you say enough is enough? How much debt is too much?

    How long do you think we are going to be able to spend money that we don't have before it ends in tragedy?
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SPcsMMEMbfw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  17. DieHard Rocket

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    I used to worry about the debt too, then I became educated. We are programmed as society to think of debt as being bad (and it is in most personal instances). But right now is not the time to reduce the debt. We need to take a lesson from Japan so this thing doesn't stretch out another ten years (Japan was in a similar recession from about 1990 to 2005 because they kept trying to reduce debt before the economy had stabalized).

    http://www.paecon.net/PAEReview/issue58/Koo58.pdf

    Everyone should read that before making ill-informed statements about our economy.

    I do agree with you on our slimy political system though. There is just way too much selfishness. All that anyone cares about is getting re-elected and advancing a short term agenda, but nobody thinks long term.
     
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Of course it matters. Of course it produces change, both good (Mr. Obama putting tens of millions of Americans on the path to getting healthcare, which they do not have now) and bad (Mr. Bush lying to the United States and the world about the reasons for his invasion and occupation of Iraq). An example? We currently have a far-right Supreme Court, thanks to Republican Presidents, one willing to toss out decades of established law, seemingly on a whim. Federal judges appointed for life have a huge impact on this country. Those judges don't pop out of the ether. They get nominated by the President of the United States.

    The whole idea that it doesn't matter who gets elected is, in my opinuion (and with all due respect) absurd. As is the idea that you apparently have that Obama is a socialist. That's also absurd, in my opinion.
     
  19. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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  20. Northside Storm

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    Someone needs to nail him on Wall Street reform. He would not be electable just based on that one flaw.

    Does this mean he would have attempted to contract fiscal policy in the middle of a credit crisis? Is he aware he can't contract monetary policy unilaterally?
     

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