[ClutchFans] For Rockets, winning in 2012 would be nice, but losing might be better

non-starter. i'm not suggesting it's a guarantee. there are no guarantees anywhere. but our own GM has said publicly that losing is an easier way, but that Les wants him to become a playoff squad while rebuilding at the same time. there have been analytical reports posted in the GARM of late where statisticians have broken it down and said Morey's right.

time to take our medicine and stop pretending we're not sick.

 

Asking your players to play to lose is not intentionally tanking, but stupid. Intentionally tanking is to get better in future. Give up quality veteran role players to playoff teams for raw young talent or high draft picks. Playing your own talented but flawed young players instead of those disciplined and experienced but OLD ROLE players.

That's how you intentionally tank to get better - accumulate youth, picks, and talents, and forget about wins.

 

DD, not trying to argue with you today, but Im not sure if you read my post above. Id like to hear a response from you on it in all honestly. When you look at it from the angle Im view it at, which is "what would tanking mean for this team." If mgmt did those few things to "try and tank" would the Rockets have been that much worse. Its a legit question.

What they could "possibly" have done in a vacuum-

-Trade Scola, & Martin (we all know thats easier said than done but assume they could trade both for nothing but a sack of rocks or TPE)
-Not sign Dalembert
-By removing options, make the young guys, T-Will, Thabeet, Morris, etc. have to play heavy minutes without going through the normal "process" because of lack of vet. personnel.

Knowing that the Rockets Mgmt cannot force the hand of the players & coaches to kick the ball out of bounds in theory, these are the only opions I see that they have in front of them to tank. My legit question is would this team have really been that much worse???

 

Sarcasm or no?

Of course Morey agrees with Les. Publicly. What's he supposed to say? "My owner's senile. We have no stars so no one comes to our games but he won't let me trade a bunch of good reserves because he thinks fans will show up to watch Lowry and Scola. Well, he's right. A couple fans did show up. I think they sit in Section 405."

As an example, Morey wanted to strip the team of parts to get Ricky Rubio. Morey even said (wish I weren't lazy, I'd find a link) that we might not win a lot games next season, but this kid (etc etc is worth it etc). Adelman opposed the deal: "Are you trying to get me fired?" Now Adelman IS the kid's coach AND wishes he still had Rubio in the fold; they could've made the playoffs.

The point is, would Morey have tossed players and picks away for Rubio, knowing we'd stink for a season, if he didn't know it were best to tear down the team and rebuild it? (I'm guessing he must have convinced Les of the trade.)

 

We could have got Roy. Oh the possibilities ... one can only dream. Sigh.

 

You don't know what to do.... if it were up to you V-Span and Aaron Brooks would be the starting backcourt with Hassan Whiteside and Jeremy Tyler at the forward spots and ..... Dragic would still be in Phoenix, Scola would be in San Antonio..... and the Rockets would be the Bobcats.....

 

haha, I thought somebody might pick that up.

hey, at least what i said was actually legitimate. im a big fan of Clutch xD

and on a forum where nearly everybody replies to every post of Clutch's in total agreement, I certainly don't stand out.

 

Very good point. IMO, its obvious that Morey views certain players in the draft as transformative players that he would give the farm for even if it hurts them short term. The Rubio trade is a great example of that. If Morey knew that the team would be a very bad team for one season to get X player, there is no doubt in my mind he pulls the trigor. Anyone who says they are afraid to loose games now isn't considering the options that available in certain situations where gutting the team is even an option.

 

We still can! :grin:

 

absolutely. not having dalembert and not trading for camby would have hurt this team. heavy minutes from twill and thabeet and morris....yeah, i think that means we'd have a far better position in the draft than we do right now. and all that would have cost us is more of the mediocrity we enjoyed this season.

caveat: it's difficult to play the "what if" game....but since you asked (though you didn't ask me) i answered.

 

All you have to do is go through the NBA draft for the last 20 years, and look at each player drafted at #15...... see how many stars you find.... then run the same search at #10...... #5...... #1...... there is no doubt there is a strong undeniable correlation... hell look at the players Morey has wanted the last 3-4 years.... Rick Rubio, Demarcus Cousins, Paul George, and Jonas Valančiūnas.... all were gone in that 4-12 range.... how different would we feel with Valančiūnas and Cousins inside for the next decade?

 

People need to read this. It the most thorough and well written explanation of what the Rockets Philosophy should be

Revising The Superstar Theory, Part 1/
Revising The Superstar Theory, Part 2
The Original Superstar Theory, Part 1
The Original Superstar Theory, Part 2
The Original Superstar Theory, Signs of a Superstar and How teams acquired their Superstars

 

Well Im glad YOU answered. IMO, unless the coach is on board with playing the lesser player (ex: Thabeet over ... anyone) your probably going to get a similar result.

The Camby trade Im taking out of consideration because they made that move after the Rockets were almost a "sure thing" for the playoffs. Little did we know.

I agree that it would have cost the Rockets some wins, but Im not sure how many, or if it would have been enough to really make a huge difference. However, thats just the way I see it. If you think they would have been bad enough to compete with the likes of Charlotte, NO, or even Golden State then Im open to hearing how you think that could have happened without getting the coach on board with openly loosing games.

 

Thanks, exactly.

You guys don't think playing Thabeet for 30 minutes a night would have made our record worse?

or Twill for that matter?

The weirdest thing that Morey did, IMO was get all these 09ers, and NEVER force the coach to play them, I mean is he that weak of a GM that he can't force the coach to take a longer view?

If you acquire someone, you damned well better be willing to put the time in and play them and let them develop, otherwise wtf did you acquire them for in the first place?

More turnover?

DD

 

Clutch had it right. Would have been painful, but it would be nearly over now. Well, here we are.

 

Here in lies the issue. There are teams like Portland that have their wiping boy that is on board with openly loosing games, but your dealing with a coach whose reputation and coaching career is on the line every game. I just dont think mgmt can rightfully force the hands of the players and coaches to openly loose games. We are talking about millions of dollars these coaches and players stand to loose by underperforming.

Maybe thats the problem. Maybe Morey should have hired a wiping boy to do the dirty work. However, then all these young players would have suffered in their development. There is always a catch 22 to consider in the process.

These are just thoughts though. I think Clutch was ultimately right in theory that this was the season to tank if it was possible.

 

repped for utter laughness...

 

It was funny, just inaccurate as lusual.

DD

 

Its my new sig. Thanks for inspiring that DaDa.