steve francis , jason kidd , kobe bryant, vince carter , or allen iverson ?

Plus Carter brings the fans to the game like no other...He is the most popular player in the NBA right now.

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz

 

[/B][/QUOTE]
My choice would be Steve Francis.
A potential of averaging tripple double is just too big to pass on.
Also considering the lack of depth at one, I think Steve has a better chances of dominating his posistion than any other players on the list.


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Hack a Shaq you'll be winning
Hack-him you'll be dreaming.

 

Even though I didn't like his game before last year I would take Kobe. He proved last year that he can play on both ends of the court.
Francis is still unproven although he has all the skills.
I love Jason Kidd but he is not a scorer so in starting a franchise I think the first pick has to be able to score.
Carter is a high flyer but has not proven himself, yet, on the defensive end of the court.
Iverson showed last year he is a warrior, but his poor habits (bad friends, always late) off-set some of his positives.
I'd take Kobe as the more proven.

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The truth hurts, but Kobe is a much beter player to build around than ANY of those guys.........He plays the best "D" in the game, and is improving EVERY game he plays.....He can play 3 spots.....If he plays as a 1 or 2, then he's a tall one....He can rebound.......He's younger, and he has won a championship, so he has all that playoff experience.....not to mention, he's clutch.....................I really think playing behind Shaq is hurting his career..........

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You guys are acting like winning a first-round series in the East is some kind of accomplishment. Big deal. The guy shoots barely over 40%! Low 70's from the foul line. His defense is not that good (how good could it be for someone 6-ft tall). Low assist numbers. Basically what you have is an extremely weak conference, where a team with a very good coach has won a first-round series 2 years in a row. They still got crushed in the 2nd-round both times. They weren't even contests. Iverson's pretty fair in the clutch, though, I'll give him that.

 

"I have a couple of friends who are big time Sixers fans who really support the opinion that character-wise Iverson is a mess, and that his actions do warrant a trade. They like him as a player, but maintain his off the court actions are not good at all for the team"

I'm sure there were plenty of big time Sixers fans who really wanted to trade Barkley for the exact same reasons. Sure, Barkley never gave it his best off the court. But he left it all on the line on the court. I guarantee you no one in this league plays harder than Iverson. Give Iverson at least some respect. He is a very good passer, unbelievable scorer, and a better defender than Francis at this point.

And the Sixers did not get crushed in the 2nd round this year. They did get down 3-0 to the Pacers. But how many teams manage to push the series to a sixth game after being down 3-0. That sixth game was on their home court too. They had a good shot at pulling off the unbelievable.

And I understand that the Eastern Conference is rather weak compared to the Western Conference. But Eastern teams do play 28 games against Western conference teams. I think it is rather unfair to discount all teams from the East as just inferior compared to the West.

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Reggie Miller got suspended, else that series would've been over quicker.

 

if you evaluate players using vital criteria:

1. passing
2. shooting - midrange
3. shooting - 3pt
4. post
5. dribbling
6. aggressiveness
7. jumping ability
8. mentality (focused)
9. team oriented
10. decision making (shot selection, etc.)
11. good person/leader (immeasurable)
12. defense

the decision is extremely clear - vince carter.

he's the only one (out of the 5 you mentioned) who does all 12 things.

kobe comes in @ 2nd.
steve & kidd tie for 3rd.
allen iverson comes in 5th.


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miles ahead of the rest

 

KOBE, KOBE, KOBE!!!

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"There is no controlling legal authority", - Al Gore, upon discovery that he clearly broke campaign fundraising laws.

 

Kobe because of his age, his skills and his ring. Playoff experience speaks volumes!

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Don't you have anything better to do?

 

All of these Kobe lovers are beginning to disgust me.. ick.. You're all talking as if Kobe was the one who led the Lakers to the championship. Well, he didn't.. it was another young lad by the name of Shaquille.


I would probably take Vince Carter first, then Francis, then Kidd, then Iverson and finally Bryant.


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My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel-boy.

[This message has been edited by fadeaway (edited August 30, 2000).]

 

Just curious, why these 5 guys? Because they're all guards (with the exception of Carter)? Because they're young (Kidd isn't THAT young)?

I would prefer to start a franchise around a big man, like Garnett or Duncan, if I had a choice.

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The only players i would choose over Steve is Shaq and Garnett.Steve is a point guard like no other.Payton is the only point in the league better than him right now and i still think there is a few 2guards.I see with in the next 3 seasons Steve becoming the best guard in the league.Francis is a all around versatile player at the point and thats very hard to find.If the question is who the player is that i would pick to build a team around it would be FRANCHISE!The name says it all.Of course being a die hard rocket fan has nothing to do with it!!!

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IF

A. If all were assumed to be in their first year, that is compare their first year in the league, with each others first year in the league:

Steve Francis by a long shot. Not even close.

B. If all were assumed that last year was their first year, that is compare last year's performance as the very first year in the league:

Kobe Bryant by a long shot.

C. If all were assumed that last year we could equally acquire one of them for the same amount and same length of contract:

Kobe Bryant.

Observations

1. Vince is not as well rounded as some (see above posts) make him out to be. He has great moves, leads the league in committment to drive, can leap, has a desperation fadeaway that reminds me of some oldtimers but he is not an excellent passer, does not creatively make improve his teamates unless they are under and free. Sorry.

2. Iverson is not someone who you would build a franchise around. Whether by design or attitude, the "Generation Me" has him and won't let him go. I sincerely feel his frustration though. How would you like to have no appreciable talent as your teamates and still get the bad press everytime you take over a game so that the team can win? Ironically, he would be a hell of a player on a team like the Rockets, who would prop him up with role players, give him some complimentry players and set plays for their matchup strengths. Brown's philosophy is almost strictly "share the wealth" regardless of the outcome. Everyone gets the ball whether they know what to do with it or not.

3. Kidd is not my favorite guard. I have no idea why. I loved it when the ROY went to him and Grant, but I have a mental block about him or something. He looks almost uncomfortable when he plays, or something. I don't know. I know he he has all the things that should be on a franchise team, is committed to a coach's gameplan, can pass, developed a good scoring game(remember when he couldn't buy a basket for a year and a half?), involves his teamates. the hands down best ball passer of the bunch. They only thing I know for sure is that he is getting to that style and age when they better expect injuries.

4. Bryant has offensive flash and flare and backs it up with a defensive style that is smothering at times. His repetoire of shoots is vast and growing. He has as much street style as finesse. He is very marketable. He is very intelligent about the court game. The game within the game if you will. Great eyes and passing ability is getting better every year. But he has a ranging long armed/legged body and uses every inch to his benefit. Watch him take the ball offhand to the defender, watch the inexplicable shoulder deek before he switches to his nearhand. His motions are all so fluid. Probably the best ball handler of the bunch. And this praise from a dyed-in-the-wool NON-LAKER fan. Bigtime Non-Laker fan.

5. Steve Francis showed me a number of things last year, but the most impressive was a leadership that none of the others have either not developed yet (Iverson) are attempting to develop it(Kobe/Carter), or if they did develop it, it took more than a couple of years to grasp what it is all about. He matured beyond anyones expectations. Because of that, he will grow steadily every year. His assists this year will eclipse last years, his scoring will be more measured and opportunistic this year, he will have a better grasp of the court game, although overall, I think he is a lot smarter ball handler than either Carter, Iverson. A break your ankles first step. (Incidentally Mobes can cross him up good. One on one Cuttino and Steve are pretty close at first step.) A better passer than most, and as much hops as Vince. All in all the overall best talent potential of everyone. he needs to develop Jason Kidd's eyes and ball control, Kobe's defense(he can't grow Kobe's proportionedly long arms and legs), Vince's in-the-air (a la MJ) "change your shot" moves, and a little more of Iverson's win at all costs attitude.

 

Kenny Smith

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Doink!

 

ya know why sixers made playoffs? theyre in the east. west is much tougher. i think rocks would have had a chance at playoffs in east and francis will be better than iverson this year when you put up 30 shots a game you should score 30. he shoots way too much is too short to play the 2 and wasnt a great defender at the 1 either. and he actually had good cast around him lynch is a very good player. he also had snow who is a very good player. look at sixers if iverson hadnt gotten all these people traded

joe smith, stack, kukoc, van horn sixers personnel didnt do well getting the most for these players when they were traded. when they gave up stack they got ratliff and now stack is the leader of his team and put up all star numbers last year.

 

I don't think he'll ever averagae a tripple double but he could be close. I would not take Iverson, cause he's always late for practice and wants to be the Sixers captain. If you're your teams captain or want to you better show up early for every practice not late. Iverson isn't a team player.
I would pick Stevie Wonder to start my franchise around.

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[This message has been edited by steviewonder (edited August 30, 2000).]

 

This is tough, but as of right now, Kobe and Kidd make my list.

I love's Kidd's game. He's probably the most offensively challenged of the group (which isn't anything to be ashamed of), but other than maybe Kobe the most complete. I've always thought its best to start with a PG and build around, and Stevie is too young to base a formulative opinion on. Kidd has the size, the speed, the unbelievable courtsense and decision making, he can run the fast break as good as anyone, his defense is only bettered by the Glove at his position, and he can add some flare as well. But most of all, IMHO, he is by far the best leader of this group. Maybe it's because he's the most experienced, but thats a key attribute for a franchise player.

Kobe's ceiling for improvement though is much higher. Scary to think he's only 21, because he is so well-rounded. He can practically do anything; slash, shoot the 3's, create off the dribble, play defense, make plays for his teammates and rebound. But something about him makes me uneasy to make him a franchise player though. Maybe's its because he isn't the best player on his team, and I doubt whether he would be as effective without Shaq. If you placed Bryant in Iverson's spot, would the Sixers be better? Nonetheless, he is still far more well-rounded than Vince.

As for Steve, if he can combine all those skills as oeilpere mentioned, he will definatley be my man for a franchise. I think its unfair to put him in this group, as we haven't anything close to his best yet.
Man, thats scary.

Azim da Dream

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We don't live for the destination. We live for the journey.
http://www.clutchtown.com

 

losttexan:

No one is telling you you have to love Kobe. But at this point in his career, looking at last season's stats, you have:

KOBE: 22.5 pts, 6.3 reb, 4.9 ast, 2.8 TO's
STEVE: 18.0 pts, 5.3 reb, 6.6 ast, 4.0 TO's

Kobe has the edge, IMHO.
Now, if we want to compare Steve as a rookie to Kobe as a rookie, THEN Steve can dominate. As for not deserving the praise he gets, you're probably right. He was chosen to be the media's darling right out of high school. But his numbers are beginning to justify some of the hype. Not to mention defensively, where he was on the All-Defensive first team (I believe that USA Today actually picked him as Defensive Player of the Year).

I like Bryant. I love Francis. But at this point, Kobe has the edge.

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Jazzkiller

 

I would have to choose Kidd or Francis.

Kidd, because he just has all the qualities to make a team compete. He has close to the best court vision in the game, has improved his jump shooting and free throws remarkably over the past few years, and rebounds incredibly well for a point guard. It was said earlier in this thread, and I totally agree, Kidd is just a triple double waiting to happen.

Kidd is also a classy player, someone who won't have a detrimental effect on his teammates, whoever you put alongside him. As well is someone who is very coachable, doesn't sulk, gripe, b****, moan or anything other adjective like that you can think of.

Francis, because he is a Rocket.

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"He fouled me every single time I was over the rim ... I'm going to lift weights tomorrow and get my legs stronger so next time I play him I'll put it on his head five times." - Steve Franchise