First off, if you know my posting history, I am not a negative poster. Hell, I'm not even negative about the negative posters. And I am certainly not a Francis hater. But I am going to say something somewhat negative here. If you can't stomach it, please refrain from reading any further. If you still think I am a Steve hater, flame away. Francis made two incredible buzzer beating shots in Memphis and in Miami. That's heroism. That should get us Rockets fans excited to have such a "clutch" player on our team. But, instead, that got me very worried. Some people have already pointed out that we should never have had to go to overtime. But that's not what I am talking about. I am sure y'all remember last year, Francis ignored a timeout order by Rudy and went ahead to hit a game-winning trey at the buzzer. That's heroism. That should get us Rockets fans excited to have such a "clutch" player on our team. Butl, instead, that got me very worried. I knew at that time it was a bad sign. A young star ignoring the coach to shoot a shot. And the worst part was that he made it. I wish he missed. Then he would have been chatised. But since he made the shot, nobody dared to argue with that. Now, two recent games, two heroic shots. What worries me is that Francis did not play very well down the stretch. He made poor decisions. He kept trying to do things his way in the 4th Q. With the "clutch" shots, with all the media raving about it, it only reinforces his illusion that he can "take over" in cruch time. And, of course, "taking over" to the Rockets guard means nothing other than playing ISOs, 1 on 5 kind of game. That's bad. It also makes it that much harder for Rudy to discipline him when he is not following the game plan. How can you argue with the shots he made? I wished he missed. Then he would have been humbled to do some soul searching and come back a better team player. That's my negativity about Francis's heroism. Now, here's some positive thing. The game-tying shots he made were off of a set play. Yao said that they all knew the play very well. Even Pat Riley knew the play but they still couldn't stop it. There is hope that Francis will realize that following the plan, having the whole team executing, rather than free-wheeling with his physical abilities, is the smart thing to do. Let's hope that he will learn, some day. In fact, the OT performance in Miami seems to suggest that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Good post, but we dont know how much Rudy "got on" Francis after that game, he may have "chewed" his butt out for all we know............true?
Easy, Great points. I think what all those proves is Francis is somewhat of an enigma. His inconsitencies are frustrating, especially with the high expectations that most had coming into this season. That being said, he deserves a little bit of slack. We have 1) A PF who is only 20 years old and still growing into his game 2) A rookie center who only 25 games into the season and still adjusting 3) Somewhat of a new offensive philosophy and 4) The pressures of living up to a new, high dollar contract, I think Francis deserves at least the rest of this season to prove that he can or can not lead this team to the playoffs and/or elite status. Hopefully, hell develop into the leader and playmaker that we think he can.
good thread. I actually don't think any of this is bad. You want people who think they are heroes and want the shot. I remember the Indiana 3OT game where Rudy said at the end of the 2nd OT after 3 separate heroes showed up, "I don't know who to go to, guys." Mobley, Francis and MoT all said, ME!!! I want the ball. That is much better than San Antonio folding time and time again because no one wanted the ball we the Lakers doubled Duncan. One of the things fringe teams like us go through is we don't have as many blowouts as the good teams. We have way too many "Hero" moments. But if you watch, the great teams don't really execute all that better in their hero moments (last shot) than we do....it is just that they have less of them. They execute better from the 5 minute mark to the 1:00 mark than other teams do. We need to not give up our leads and to execute down the final 4 minutes (to include free throws).
I'm usually don't have much tolerance for the negative Francis threads, but I do try to be fair. I think this is a great topic, and I don't mind legitimate concerns, and I don't consider you a 'hata' at all. I agree that Steve has made some costly mistakes, so your critique is waranted. I will say that the last two buzzer beaters that Francis nailed were called plays by the coach, unlike the shot in Stockton's mug. I also think that despite the boneheaded play from time to time by Francis his game has shown a lot of improvement this year, and that pleases me. And most of the time even when the improvement isn't there, it at least looks like there's attempted improvement, if that makes any sense. I hope that as the season progresses and our rotation becomes more consistent that the mistakes will also decrease.
Our any Sacramento King not named Mike Bibby (still can't believe Christie and Pedrag throwing up airballs) I'd rather Steve have the "heriocs" in him first rather than the "basketball IQ." Why?? Because "basketball IQ" can be taught and reinforced...guts doesn't come around from repetition. Stevie will not think he can get away with those mistakes because most of the time, those mistakes will not allow him to hit a last second shot. Hopefully, Stevie's watching tape of this game and realizing that he's one lucky SOB. Is Rudy chewing him out??? I'd hope so but its Steve that has to realize that a boring win is better than an exciting one. But the guy has guts and in sports, that's usually more rare than smarts.
Good post, but point is kinda confusing. No, heroism is not a bad thing. But trying to do too much is a bad thing, and that should never be described as heroism. When SF was not taking the best of the situation(i.e pass the ball to wide open teammeates, who has better chance to score on the sequence), I dont think that is heroism. MJ is heroic, but he didnt always do it himself and can recognize the situation. Of course if SF can shoot more than 60% in those situation, he might be on par with MJ, but it is not happening. I never doubt SF is worrior and has a big heart. He just needs to know, well as described in other threads, to be a smartER player. He is a terrific player, and I like him more and more, but if he learns how to play team ball on consistent basis, he will be the greatest player in the League. Frankly, I dont think he is in the same class with Kobe, kidd likes right now.
I'm of the belief that SF is NOT a selfish player. Quite frankly, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think SF doesn't take enough shots. But in toward the end of regulation, I think it's OK to have a go-to-guy in SF who knows, himself, that he will most likely be the hero or the goat. As far as what he did inthe plays leading up the end of the Heat game... well, there's something to be said of "cumulative" successes and failures. The fact that SF has the tenacity and fearlessness to take the last shot is an unambiguous good. The fact that SF has yet to get a handle on the tempo of his own game relative to his teammates is a negative. Overall, I think it's good that SF has the "belief" that he can pull off the hero act. It's sure as hell beats the alternative where you have players passing the ball and NOT wanting to take the big shot. So long as SF doesn't do things too out of control... i.e. put up say, 40 shots, or challenge 4 defenders ALONE on a fast break... i'm totally cool with him believing that he CAN be the hero. And as they say in showbiz: "Ya Gotta BELIEVE!!!" feisfriendSAGE
disobeying the coach: individualism taking the game winner: heroism knocking it down in that b**** flopton's face: priceless thanks for that memory steve
This is exactly what I'm thinking. I'd rather Francis (and the other Rockets) plays better with poise at the latter part of the game than have him making game-saving shots and got raved as hero.
Thanks for the memory Steve, your clutch shots that defy human will is priceless! You make me proud of my priviledge, to be born in the same age as to witness your greatness! There's a reason I go to church every week, to pray that you play like we always know. BTW, I'm film producer planning to make a movie just for you Steve, It's name is: HERO!
I think the point may be that although heroism is great when ABSOLUTELY needed, you don't want to rely on it too much. Ideally, the experienced/dominant /better team shoud rarely have to resort to the "heroic" play because all the "little things" that may be overlooked by the casual fan are quietly done without fanfare or notice. But, like magic, the win seems inevitable because of these little invisible things. "Heroism" is great and sometimes neccessary, but...
Interesting thread. No, heroism is always a good thing. I just don't define Steve's antics as heroism. It's more like hubris. I find nothing heroic about bailing out the team at the last second, after putting a win and the team in jeopardy by presumptuous, selfish play. The type of play where you ignore teammates, the gameplan, and quite possibly the coach as well. To me, that's like being venerated as a hero for rescuing a baby from a burning house -- a house that you yourself set on fire. And I don't think it shows heart, fearlessness, or courage to be willing to go into a house that you just torched -- or save the game that you just sabotaged. What's heroic were the postseason, game-winning shots hit by Dream's <i>teammates</i> back in the day. What's heroic is Hakeem carrying the team most of the way, but willing to get help from his teammates when the game was on the line -- and/or anytime along the way when he was being smothered. Go ahead and call me a Steve hater. Because the way he's been playing all these years, and his recent relapse -- just when I thought his selfish play had gone into remission -- are making it very easy for me to hate him. It's one thing if he were stupid. But I don't think you can make the same mistakes again and again solely because of stupidity. So yes, heroism is a good thing. And no, Steve is not a hero. And finally -- yes, I'm a Steve hatah. It's a label I'll wear proudly. Because I'm a Rocket's fan first and foremost. And Steve's hubris is doing more harm than good to the team that I love.
Heroism is never bad. However, a huge part of heroism is sacrifice! Sacrifice selfish stat-padding for the betterment of the team. Sacrifice some of your energy playing solid defense. Sacrifice the temptation to showboat with unnecessary dribbling that often lead to turnovers or taking bad low percentage shots over the outstretched arms of a defender. In short, sacrifice the glory of wanting to be "the hero". A great example of heroism would be Steve diving for the loose ball towards the end of the Miami game. That was a play that showed his heart, determination, and brains. Any of the last quarter tunnel vision-afflicted attempts of driving straight into 3 defenders to jack up an impossible shot is most definitely not heroic. It is merely stupid.
Well, first of all, there's nothing heroic about basketball period. Let's stop using that phrase. I don't know what the problem is. Last year nobody cared, not even Rudy, that Francis waived him off for the first and only documented time in his career. Easy, after your whole long post, you just said that both game tieing shots were off of set plays. So, doesn't that pretty much make your's and others' posts moot? By the way, we were down by 3, giving the ball to Yao wasn't going to tie that game. Anyways, did you guys really watch that game last night. It was a set play specifically designed for Francis to take the clutch 3 pointer. There wasn't even another player standing behind the 3 pt line, so please tell me who he should have passed it to. It was a simple play to, Yao sets a screen, hands it to Francis, he uses the screen to get to an OPEN spot behind the 3 pt line. I'm not trying to sound angry with you easy, just pointing out to you in particular that you posted yourself that the plays were SET plays, so I don't see how Francis was not playing within the offense. If I sound angry, it's because of some of the dumb things I read as I skimmed through this thread.
Oski, I am not complaining about the last second 3-pointers per se. I am saying that having Francis making all these "heroic" (sorry for using the term, if you don't like it) shots, it might be reinforcing a kind of mentality. I call that mentality the "hero complex." It is the "I can do it all by myself," or the "me or die" kind of thinking. If Francis had shown himself to be a smart player, who could and was willing to execute within the team offense, then I would be all happy to see him hitting the big shots. But even the Francis apologists admit that he does not have very good court vision. Hence he doesn't make very good decisions in terms of executing team offense. That is all fine if he is willing to learn to see the whole floor rather than seeing a tunnel leading to the basket. My worry is that the lack of court vision together with a "hero complex" could translate into trying to do it all by himself in crunch time. In fact, I seem to perceive such a pattern. It might not be just Francis. The whole team seems to cease executing and revert to individualism towards the end of games. The most obvious example was the Memphis game, where they actually played pretty good team offense up until the last half of the 4th Q. Then the whole thing collapsed into one on one basketball. I do not think Francis's problem is motivated by selfishness. That's why I am not a Francis hater. I believe he sincerely want to win and not want to "pad his stat" as many here claim. But I fear that he does have a kind of "hero complex" that prevent him from being an effective leader down the stretch.
Easy, I agree that Francis isn't the best pure point guard and that he has lots or room for improvement, but I just think your idea of a "hero complex" requires way more instances and some proof of an actual problem for it to have any weight. The reason I want to reiterate that it isn't really a problem, is that Francis' number was called and it was his job to take that shot, make or miss, he was the guy Rudy wanted shooting the ball. I don't think Francis considers himself the hero, but it's safe to say he views himself as the best player on the team, and until Yao hits his max potential, there isn't an argument as to the best is. Your trying to say that winning these games will make Francis think he is the only guy who can do it, but I don't buy that and I'll tell you why. These last 2 big 3's he hit were part of the offense, they were plays, so they shouldn't be a problem. Last year, when he waived off Rudy, that could be viewed as a problem in the mold of your "hero complex." Now, think about all the clutch game winning 3's Moochie Norris hit last year. Now, think about who passed it to him. Francis. I won't deny that Francis thinks he has the best chance of winning a game, but I think he's smart enough to pass to a wide open man and I know that he trusts his teammates enough to play decoy too. Think about Jordan's clutch shot against the Cavs, Francis can do that. Think about Jordan sitting on that bench and telling Kerr to look for the ball, Francis has already done that with Mooch and EG as well. So, in closing, I just want to say that I don't think Francis will take reckless game winning shots all the time, he knows how to find the best possible shot. Now only if he did it at the beginning of games mrore often. . .
