In chat last night, I grinded my teeth every time I saw rockHEAD type Mobley drives, shoots, miss, ugh. Mobley is a true SG and as a result, he is always going to fire up shots. I have resigned myself to that a long time ago. That is why I think tod the bod's idea of bringing him off the bench is a good one simply because that can cut down on the forced shots. However, if Mobley WOULD ever show that he is learning from doing dumb things, then I would get off his back forever. Yet, just when I was ready to do this, he does something to make me come back to these feelings.
cat's return changed Rockets game. He is a talent so he has to take many shots. Rockets have to be a guard orientated teamwhen two great Guards like STEVE AND CAT both are on court. cat in not a cancer, but he is a good tradable bait. To Rudy: change Cat's play or trade him.
I'm stunned, I thought the Cat and Francis bashing would only come after a loss. You know the "I like Cat but he's a cancer", "I like Francis, but he isn't a PG". "I like our backcourt but we're not going to win a championship with them", etc, etc. We're 13-10. But suddenly people want Eddie Jones, what a shock. Miami isn't doing that trade, if Miami wouldn't do a deal with Memphis who has more available talent then us, then why would they take Rice's contract, another PF, another PF with a huge contract coming off a serious injury?
With the new influx of fans, some of them will bash Cat and Francis no matter what. We have a blowout, we'll have a hating thread, "KT black hole, trade him!" or "Griffin is a bust!", we have a good hard fought win, we'll have "Cat and Francis shooting too much." We have a close win, we have "Francis almost cost us the game, trade him!", or "Francis makes boneheaded mistakes in the end, TRADE HIM!"
They'd take Rice, because he's 10M off their cap soon. They'd take KT, to play until MoT is back into shape. They take MoT, for him to start next year. The only contracts that could come upto Brian Grant or Eddie Jones' contract in Memphis are Brevin Knight, Wesley Person, and Lorenzen Wright. The only player we're offering with a long contract is 25 or 26. Unless Memphis offer something that is Swift, Battier, and a contract, Miami wouldn't do that deal. I'm not the pessimist here. I just have an open mind. You have the right to post what you want, but it would be a lot nicer if you could open up a bit, stop being so stubborn. It's discussion, and frankly, I'd throw in Nachbar or a future first rounder for that deal. The team after the trade wipes the floor with our team before the trade. Miami doesn't become a worse team, are better off cap-wise, and get younger.
Isn't Miami pushing to clean up cap space this summer coming up? No way they would take Rice, they're trying to get young. I would say they would take Rice if they needed a veteran who could contribute but they have veterans. Again I'm asking you, why would Miami take ANOTHER veteran with a big contract in Rice, Mo Taylor coming off a serious injury and his contract, and Cuttino Mobley? I could see KT, but the rest don't make any sense. What, they trade Eddie Jones who is carrying that team right now for Mobley? Why!?
I may be listed as a "Junior Member" but I am a native Houstonian and have been a die-hard Rockets fan since I was a kid during the Ralph Sampson and Olajuwon era. I remember being up late at night watching that infamous playoff game vs LA where Sampson miraculously wrestled a victory from the sure clutches of defeat with that miraculous shot. I was a die-hard fan when all of the Phoenix fans said the Rockets were done in 95 after going down 0-2. I BELIEVE!---in team. Let me be clear---I think we have a FANTASTIC TEAM. We just need to learn how to play like one. When I saw the way the team played against Phillie, the Spurs, and the Queens, I started getting excited again just like I used to when Olajuwon's squad would take the floor. Did you see that no look bounce pass to Francis by Yao. That's our future----"Francis in to Yao. Yao dishes to Francis. Francis takes it home. Hoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!" I don't think we should trade Franchise, KT, or Griffin. Griffin is just 20!!! He'll learn. It took Kobe a few years to learn. He'll be okay. KT is one of my favorite players. He works his ass off and he has shown a ROCK SOLID committment to this team by taking care of business EVERY OFFSEASON with the weight management. I like Mo Taylor bc he's a great offensive talent when he's aggressive but he can't rebound and he can't D it up. What use is a PF if he can't rebound and D it up? We don't need more O we need hardnosed rebounding and D---and that's KT. As for Mobley---Rudy needs to either get him in line with the motion offense or trade him for a PG like Andre Miller.
And I'm not bashing that trade proposal for the sake of bashing it, but why would Miami make that trade? Mo hasn't even played for us the last few games, this after missing a year with a serious injury after signing a huge contract. Why would they trade Grant for him in that deal? I can understand KT, but Mo is on the books longer then Grant is I believe so they wouldn't be clearing cap space. Rice is on the books for another 2 years, why would Miami essentially trade Rice and Mobley for Eddie Jones when Eddie, who is also young, is just on a MONSTER tear, I mean just tearing it up. Mobley is on fire for the Rockets to, but Eddie Jones is carrying the heat right now. Mobley might be able to do the same thing, but why take a chance and trade a guy who is doing that for them right now for Mobley and Rice?
You see if you bothered to read my post, you'd see that Miami is MAKING money on this deal. You say MoT is coming off an injury and Rice is old? Well Jones is past 32, can't carry a team to .500 anymore, and is maxed out. he's far too passive most of the time, and has only really been effective the past few games. As for Grant, he has no post moves whatsoever and is not very athletic. he brings in some rebounds, but, apart from that, doesn't even block shots. He's becoming more and more exploited with the new zone rules. Give me a break RocksMillenium, you know that there are ZERO undebateable trades that have happened in the past. NEVER has there been a trade where at least 20 or 30% don't disagree. I despise it when people take our players, put the WORST spin on them, then take the opposing players, and put the msot POSITIVE spin on them, and then claim "That's why it's a bad trade". Well, for your information, sometimes just a change of team improves players. How much did Donyell Marshall improve from just changing teams? Artest? Jermaine O'Neal? We're winning, but this team has a direction now. The future is Francis and Ming, and everyone else is open for trade, as long as it improves us as a team. MoT isn't playing much because of our logjam, and KT is not fitting well with our system. Rice is someone I don't want to give up ONLY because of experience. We seem to be forgetting that he clears 10M for team X in 1.5 years. Aside from that, he's playing well recently. Much better than expected. Rice is the only player above the age of 27 on our part of the trade. His contract is not even 2 years long. Are you telling me the Heat are rebuilding, so they'd never trade MAXED OUT Eddie Jones for Glen Rice and Mobley? Jones and Grant are both in their 30's. If you're going to whine, at least have the facts to support yourself. Don't be so quick to label people pessimists. The way I see it, you're the biggest pessimist on the board.
Typically, players that are "cancers" see their teams improve when they are out. Remember losing at Staples Center to the Clips, and not being able to get a basket in the last minute and a half? Remember scoring 71 points at Portland, and 83 at Seattle? Remember getting crushed by the Kings at Arco? If Mobley's a cancer that hurts our team chemistry and bogs down the offense, wouldn't the points and wins be down, instead of up, since his return?
Exactly. In regard to the original question, Mobley is in NO WAY a cancer. He gets along with everyone, always tries to get with what the team is doing, and over the past few years, can boast the fact that he's improved every single season.
<b>You see if you bothered to read my post, you'd see that Miami is MAKING money on this deal. You say MoT is coming off an injury and Rice is old? Well Jones is past 32, can't carry a team to .500 anymore, and is maxed out. he's far too passive most of the time, and has only really been effective the past few games. </b> But Eddie Jones hasn't suffered the serious injuries that Rice and Mo have suffered, Jones has been reasonably healthy throughout his career. So why trade him for an aging, but still productive veteran and a PF coming off serious injuries and has a fat contract? <b>As for Grant, he has no post moves whatsoever and is not very athletic. he brings in some rebounds, but, apart from that, doesn't even block shots. He's becoming more and more exploited with the new zone rules. </b> It's better then Mo right now who isn't even playing. Again, why would Miami take a chance on Mo who is coming off a serious injury and is locked up for years to come? I don't understand that, Riley knows what he's getting from Grant, good or bad, who doesn't have a clue what he's getting from Mo. Maybe we do, but we don't get paid big bucks to take a chance on a million dollar PF coming off one of the worst injuries imaginable. <b>Give me a break RocksMillenium, you know that there are ZERO undebateable trades that have happened in the past. NEVER has there been a trade where at least 20 or 30% don't disagree. I despise it when people take our players, put the WORST spin on them, then take the opposing players, and put the msot POSITIVE spin on them, and then claim "That's why it's a bad trade". Well, for your information, sometimes just a change of team improves players. How much did Donyell Marshall improve from just changing teams? Artest? Jermaine O'Neal? </b> Did I call the trade stupid? No. I didn't make fun of your trade, I just told you why I thought it didn't make sense from Miami's side. If this was a year ago when Mo was healthy, and Rice were healthy I would actually agree with you about this trade, it would make a ton of sense from both sides. But knowing the injury history of Mo, knowing Rice is coming off an injury, he's producing but still came off an injury, why would Miami take them? And why replace Jones with Mobley when Jones is carrying that team right now? <b>We're winning, but this team has a direction now. The future is Francis and Ming, and everyone else is open for trade, as long as it improves us as a team. MoT isn't playing much because of our logjam, and KT is not fitting well with our system. Rice is someone I don't want to give up ONLY because of experience. We seem to be forgetting that he clears 10M for team X in 1.5 years. Aside from that, he's playing well recently. Much better than expected. </b> Trade rumors. That's the quickest way to destroy a team by telling them they're all on the block and you're going to break up a young team because of a bad stretch. You let young teams play out a bad stretch, trading people without giving them at least a year to prove themselves disrupt things. Just because Ming and Francis are showing signs of being great doesn't mean you can trade their entire supporting cast, especially during a time when they have the 5th best record in the West. <b>Rice is the only player above the age of 27 on our part of the trade. His contract is not even 2 years long. Are you telling me the Heat are rebuilding, so they'd never trade MAXED OUT Eddie Jones for Glen Rice and Mobley? Jones and Grant are both in their 30's.</b> No, but Miami wouldn't trade MAXED OUT Eddie for the monster contract of INJURED Mo, and Glen Rice and Mobley. Trade one Maxed out contract for a couple of big or relatively big contracts that have several years left on them? <b>If you're going to whine, at least have the facts to support yourself. Don't be so quick to label people pessimists. The way I see it, you're the biggest pessimist on the board.</b> I'm a whiner and a pessimist because I want the Rockets to keep this team together and let them grow, I don't understand that. Did I label you a pessimist? No. I don't think you're negative at all, and I don't think you're a whiner. You may think I'm a pessimist and a whiner that's you're opinion. I just think you're jumping the gun. This team will play themselves out of this one-on-one ball and become a very good team. It just takes time. It's a young team, they're not going to play perfectly. Even Seattle and Phoenix missed the playoffs before they found their niche. We've missed the playoffs, now we're finding our niche.
Leave Mobley alone. He can beat the zone, and take the ball to the rack. You may complain, that he only had one assist, but his d was big and that one assist was off nice penetration to Rice for an important three. He still takes bonehead shots, but he's shooting about 43% from the floor and averaging 3 assists per game. You want Hawkins playing 40 minutes a night or Moochie...please
I say it's time to trade Mobley. I can't stand the guy jacking up bad shots. I'm willing to trade Mobley for E Jones. Yes they are very similar players but Eddie makes better decisions and is less selfish. Look at Cat's stats from last nite: Mins FGA Ast Pts 50 20 1 27 Look at Eddies Stats: Mins FGA Ast Pts 51 27 7 32 Look at this stats... How the hell can in 50 mins that Cat have 1 assist and 20 FGA and Yao have 6 FGA?!?!?!? Eddie's 27 FGA is understandable because he's their best scoring option but at least he dished out 7 assist. When Mobley was out, the offense is great with ball movement when Yao was commanding the post. Wouldn't you guys agree that last night's game would be a lot easier if they kept passing to Yao in the post?? Certainly i would think so.
Even Clutch has mentioned that Mobley has fit in much better since his return. That's why I don't understand how someone could start a thread calling him a cancer. Here is the Rockets record with and without Mobley: With Mobley: Rockets are 9-6 Without Mobley: Rockets are 4-4 And that is a cancer we have to get rid of!?
If Eddie Jones doesn't "jack up shots" and makes better decisions, care to explain how Eddie and Cuttino have identical shooting percentages? And if the offense is great with ball movement with Mobley out, why did we struggle so much when he was on the IR? Just some huge coincidence I suppose.
RocksMillenium, Good post. My labelling you a pessimist was more concerning everyone labelling everyone else a pessimist recently. There are 2 views to everything. Here's what you're saying: Why would Miami trade Eddie Jones for Mobley. But that's not right. They're trading him for much more than that. Miami is a rebuilding team, like you said, like Pat Riley said. What good does it do for a rebuilding team to keep Jones or Grant, who are maxed out an 30+ years old? This is how mediocre teams are created. Always in re-building mdoe, never actually rebuilding. First of all, I've proven that Miami financially IMPROVE their cap situation with this trade. They don't lose any cap space that they would've had next year, and drop 10M off Rice 3 years sooner than they would've gotten 12M from Jones or Grant. The financial part of this is NOT indebate. it's a FACT, Miami financially wins, and Rockets financially are hammered. You are underestimating that aspect of this trade. Second of all, who cares of Jones is carrying the Heat right now? What is he carrying them to? A worse draft pick? They're not oing to make the playoffs, nor do they want to. They know they can't go anywhere. All that matters is, Jones is a player that should net them some help in rebuilding. Whether that's through youth or cap space, it doesn't matter. Same goes for Brian Grant. Here's what I'm saying: there are AT MOST, 3 teams who would take Eddie Jones or Brian Grant off their hands at their salary. Dallas is one. Portland have too many swingmen, and the Lakers can't afford it. The Knicks are a possibility, but, again, they have Spree, Houston and McDyess. They've also expressed an interest in being more thrifty. Here's what we're telling them: We take both contracts. In return, we DRAMATICALLY improve your cap situation, and give you back 1 contract that's half the size of either of the other contracts, and MoT will be Eddie Jones' age by the time the contract is over. Glen Rice is a POSITIVE in this trade. He'll play decent minutes with Butler, while providing him with some guidance, much like he did here for our young players. But his main purpose is clearing 10M in cap space after next season. he's not a cap burden. He's exactly what they WANT. He's playing well, has lost weight, and is at least LOOKING healthy. He's asking for more minutes. Before last year's injury, Rice had NEVER had a major injury. He's not injury prone, he just had ONE injury. Mobley gives them a 2. Whether temporary or not, it doesn't matter, because Mobley has a very very tradeable contract. One of the best contracts in the league. Change: Stepania/James (No change here) KT/MoT (MoT can work his way back into shape while KT gets minutes to earn a contract) Butler/Rice Mobley/Butler/Butler best/Carter vs Stepania/james Grant/Laphonso Ellis Butler/Ellis Jones/Rasual Butler Best/Carter Tell me, seriously, how many games is team 2 betetr than team 1? 3 games? 4 games? That, in their case, is actually a GOOD thing. To lose 4 more games, while getting younger, and working MoT back into shape. But most important of all, a TREMENDOUSLY improved Cap situation. They don't lose anything they would've had next year, while making money over time, and getting extra cap space the following summer. For us, the disadvantages are breaking up a proven backcourt, a hammering our cap situation. But, at worst, we end up with the same record. That's at WORST. If you STILL think it's not a fair trade, send them a future first rounder. If Anthony Carter's contract is bad (same as Mooch or worse), then swap Mooch with him. Mooch is definitely a better player. This team is great, I agree. They haven't gelled, I agree. But the new team has much more potential than this one.
I don't know, I like Mobes. But, I found it out that Mike Fratello of all people mentioned that Mobes was depressed earlier in the year because he basically became the third option on offense.
I think your trade would be possible if it wasn't for the injury thing. That's what I'm saying, the spirit of the deal makes sense, I don't think the Rockets would trade Mobley in a deal like that because Jones is 32, young but not for a rebuilding team, but Miami would be wary because of the injury factor. Miami is banged up as it is now, why would they take on two more guys who just missed a year with an injury? If dumping salary was an issue Miami could easily dump Jones contract without taking any serious contracts in return. Chicago would take Jones I'm sure. Phoenix has also tried to get Grant. Miami is a team in turmoil as it is now, who is the go-to guy in a trade like that? Mobley? If there are people here that don't think Mobley is a go-to guy and are ready to trade him why would Miami think that Mobley is a go-to guy. Rice? Not at this stage in his career. Mo? No way, even when healthy. I think the Rockets are doing the right thing by keeping this team together. There's a reason why Eddie Jones has a reputation for being inconsisten. Jones is have a great year, but he still has that label. And why trade away young talent (Mo, KT, Mobley), and a solid veteran (Glen Rice), for Eddie Jones who is 32 and has a huge contract? Doesn't that go against building a young team, a team that Les thinks could be a great team? Trading away pieces of that team for a guy over 30? He's playing well, and I would love to have Eddie Jones ADDED to the team, but replacing one of our key players? You just add about 7 years to the SG position. Especially considering that Mobley went toe-to-toe with Jones last night.
