Francis really reminds me of Stefan Marbury back in his NJ days. Both were converted SG turned PG and both had a knack for creating their own shots and both were scorers. But there was a big problem. NJ wanted Marbury to lead his team and be a play maker. Did he make it? NADA... at least not until he made to PHX and even then, he's having a tough go at making his Suns squad win consistently. If Francis is truly this club's franchise player, and he insists on bringing the ball upcourt, he's got to seriously look to be a playmaker first and a scorer second. I don't know how long, if ever, this will take, but right now, the Rox have ONE, count 'em, ONE legitimate PG and that's MOOCHIE NORRIS. Everybody wants to shoot/score first pass later. That won't get the job done. The one "alternative" I could see happening is if the Rox are so lucky as to find a SF who can play the point well. ala Scottie Pippen-nesque player (absent the attitude). Otherwise, it's gonna be tough to get the most of Yao. How can he shine if he can't get the ball in his favorite spots? The Rox make a sincere attempt at getting Yao involved early... they should not forget him down the stretch either.
who are u kidding he gets the whole team involved early does any one else notice that but me the rest of the team is playign like crap on certain occasions
How can you claim Francis wants to win just because he want to shoot as much as he can? Heck, almost everyone in the league wants to shoot the ball if he'd be allowed. Francis has demonstrated that he doesn't care about win. All he cares about is packing his stats. Just look at his defense. His on ball defense is one of the worst at his position, if not the worst. Good defense requires hard work and effort, talent is secondary. Can you tell me where his effort is on this department? I think Rudy should take the blame for it. Coaches should be in control of the team, bench whoever doesn't follow his plan. But look at the minutes Francis & Cat played, I don't think Rudy has the guts to bench either one of them.
I didn't see the games. It seems Yao had too many turnovers passing the ball. Can sombody tell me why?
I totally agree with you that Moochie is the only one who passes the ball, and TRY to make plays. He might be the only guard that executes Rudy.T's game paln.
Yeah Yeah Yeah you "Francis hata!!" Actually we're back here again to square one because Francis decided to take the show to broadway on his own.
Is it me, or is anyone else reading this whole thing just to say that this whole Francis is the PG stuff is just a load of crap. Traditional PG? The NBA Champions don't have a PG to note. They consist of Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant. Are you saying Kobe Bryant is the traditional SG? How about Dallas Mavericks? 7'0 SF from germany who is a shooter but can grab 10 boards a game. Sacramento Kings? Maybe they should make Webber at PG because he averages almost as many assists as Bibby in less attempts. Same for Divac. Trade Bibby for a traditional C, and put Webber at the PG position, backed up by Divac. Jason Kidd is your traditional PG? Since when is it traditional for your PG to shoot 7-20 on any given night and for the reaction to be "Not bad shooting night". That traditional label went out the window when 7'6 C's, 6'9 PG's, 6'8 SG's, and 6'4 PF's started dominating the league. Hypocritical is what this thread is. You say his defense sucks, and then you want to move him to SG? Are you, excuse my french, ****TIN ME? If Francis can't defend Andre Miller, what makes you think he can defend Kobe Bryant? Paul Pierce? T-Mac? Grant Hill? Wally Szerbiack? Francis best chance at being a decent defensive player is at PG. Even now, he is decent. He had an off night, so what. That doesn't mean he hasn't been working hard on D all season. Who would've thoguht Mobley would become a good defender? Well guess what? He is. "Maybe I shouldn't be posting this since this is out of frustration, but when I look at this team, I think "My God, this is a team that on paper can truly be dominant!" Unfortunately, only Yao and somewhat to a lesser degree, Rice, have brains and understand how to play the game. And Rudy shrugging his shoulders or looking down at the floor as Francis and/or Mobley continue to get burned by their men is not helping things. " You're exactly right. It's funny how you make this comment after a loss, right after the only players who played decent were Yao and Rice. Oh, and right after Francis and Mobley both didn't have good nights, which is an anomaly BTW. I sincerely hope that Rudy puts Francis at SG, and when he fails, then we can stop having this argument. Francis isn't the best passer in the game, but at SG, he's decent, and at PG, he's great. Not dominant yet, but great. This TEAM is not a good passing team. Grififn's not good at it, Kenny does it when he doesn't have a contract, and MoT doesn't play. T-Mo, Mobley, and Hawkins generally aren't good passers. Francis, Rice, and Yao are the only decent passers. MoT is good too, but he's not playing much. What I suggest is to get Lamar Odom for anything other than Francis, Yao, griffin, and maaaaaaaaaaybe Mobley. With Ming, Odom, and Francis, passing will be no problem AT ALL.
Don't have a Cow, Sane. First off, there ARE SUCH THINGS AS TRADITIONAL POSITION PLAYERS. If you can't appreciate the nuances of a Jason Kidd or a Mike Bibby as a PLAYMAKER and LEADER FIRST and a scorer second, then how can you grasp the concept of a "championship contender?" It's funny that you bring up Kobe as your first example. Barring lapses in short-term memory, there was a time, not too long ago, when Kobe couldn't shoot his team back into Championship form. Lakers DO have a PG, his name is Derek Fisher. The Lakers DO have passing, a requisite for being a contender. And the Lakers DO have traditional positions filled, esp at the SG and C positions. Jason Kidd is about as great a PG as there has ever been. But despite his scoring prowess, the most impt thing is that he makes it a point of involving his teammates insofar as getting THEM in rhythm THIS is what we're lacking. THIS is what a good PG does for you. Do you want to know who Marbury didn't last in NJ? Or why Jason Williams didn't last in Sac? These were both offensive minded players, playing the point, who had difficulties rallying their teams to victory. I do think SF's mentality is more a SG than a PG. Does that mean he can cover half the premier SG in the league? Probably not, as he's undersized. But the guy is quick, he can jump, and ahead of a zone D, his deficiencies can be compensated for. I think with a little more conscious effort, SF can become a TRULY EFFECTIVE PG, ala Gary Payton - a guy who can score AND dish. But if fundamentally you think our passing stinks, what makes you think a talented, but shooting-happy SG turned PG is the answer to our troubles? I'm not calling for SF to be traded. I'm not calling for SF to be moved. I just want him to be a real "PG" as a leader should be. -peace theSAGE
It's funny how you rip my examples then bring up Stephon Marbury and Kobe's recent misfortunes. It's even funner how you expect Stephon Marbury to do with Jamie Feick, Lucious Harris, Sherman Douglas, Johnny Newman and Aaron Williams the same thing jason Kidd has done with a healthy Kittles, a healthy Van Horn, Kenyon Martin, Dikembe Mutombo, Richard Jefferson, Rodney Rogers, and most important of all, a coach who wasn't in his first year. Even now, you think the Suns supporting cast is as good as NJ's? Are you one of the people who thought Marion would dissapear with Kidd being replaced by Marbury? Do you think Marbury averages 8+ assists a game with ease just being selfish? I have to tell you, if someone's averaging 8assists a game, with another PG starting with him in the backcourt, and still scores 20+ points a game regularly, I'd remove that selfish, non-team player label. I don't know if I should start arguing over Kobe or not since you didn't even come across the notion that no player in the league can get their team to win with the top 2 players injured. Yes, Shaq is worth any 2 players in the league, outside of Kobe, T-Mac and Duncan. He's easily worth Webber, Bibby, and Peja. He's easily worth Finley and Nowitzki. He's easily worth Francis, Ming and more. There are traditional players inthe league, no doubt, but they're not what's getting it done. Are you telling me Fisher is playing the traditional PG role? Bibby? They're averaging less assists than Francis. So we get a traditional PG. Who scores then? Understand this notion. Steve is the best, most skilled offensive player on this team. 19 shots is what you need to label someone an excessive shooter? Give me a frikkin break. Who was he going to pass to? Yao Ming? Yao Ming was having his own off-night, with 1-4 shooting in the second half. Personally, if not Yao Ming, I'd rather have Francis take the shots, especially when Mobley is not hitting. What's the function of a traditional PG? To get the ball to the player who has the best chance to score. But a traditional PG isn't the scorer that Francis, so, in theory, he should be getting the ball to......HIMSELF a lot of the times. Move Francis to SG? So someone else can give it to him so he can do what he's already doing? We had an off night. Francis had an off night. One thing you can't question is his leadership. Another thing you can't question is his effort. Another thing you can't pin on him is a Houston Rockets loss to the Los Angeles Clippers.
First of all, Francis's defense is not as bad as some of you think it is. For every night where Jason Williams blow his load and shoots 11-22, there are nights where Francis holds Gary Payton to 3-16 shooting, or Tony Parker to 3-13 shooting. Last time the Rockets played the Clippers, Andre Miller only scored 13 poinsts. Where were you guys praising Francis's defense when he performed well? Secondly, remember that this is the NBA and none of these players are easy to defend. Francis is also in the top 10 for most minutes per game. He gets tired and this affects his defense. Don't forget that he is still averaging 1.9 steals per game and 0.75 blocks per game. Offensively he is shooting 44% from the 3 point line, much better than anyone else on his team. That's damn impressive considering that no one else creates open looks for him on offense, and most of his shots are created for himself. His assists would go up if players like Kenny Thomas and Glen Rice could hit their jump shots consistently. For every game we've lost this year that we should have won, there have been situations where we've beaten teams we shouldn't have (Sacramento, San Antonio, Seattle). This team just needs to take about 20 more games to gel, then they will be solid.
This is pathetic. Is Steve not allowed a bad game now and then? Kobe has them. Miller certainly has them (by the way, this guy has NEVER led a winning team. The Clippers are 10-14). No one was complaining after the Sacramento game, or the Philly game. Get a grip people. Steve was the only one trying out there (at least on O). His defense has been fine until the last two games. The rest of the Rockets were cocky, and relaxed. This is still a 12-10 team, unlike Miller's 10-14 masterpiece. The season isn't over yet. Sixty games left. Manny, stick to the hangout, because you don't know **** about Francis.
Just know this, without the Franchise, the Rockets would be know where near where they are at the momment. Go Franchise!!
Oh get use to it, ZRB. If I see the team not playing like they can, my voice WILL be heard. As you would always say to me, if you don't like it, then don't read it. You and Sane are not getting the fundamental point here: 1) Francis shot 19 times and made 5 of them - obviously his shot wasn't falling and he should have done better getting more people involved. 2) It is the JOB of the PG to create easy shots for everyone else. No one has yet to answer me about the last time the Rockets scored like 2 or 3 fast break baskets. If Steve feels like no one else can score, then obviously he is not doing his job in setting other people up. 3) Is it asking too much for him to play ADEQUATE defense?? Letting Andre Miller score 27 on you is ridiculous. Go ahead and defend him all you want. Honestly, ZRB, I am surprised and disappointed with you. I thought of all people, you would be one of the most realistic ones here. Yet, it looks like you have gotten your head stuck up Francis' butt again.
Yeah right, you thought he'd be pessimistic and you hoped he'd stick his head up YOUR butt. Francis shouldn't take 19 shots? i don't get it. So he was 5-19. It's not like when he was 2-6 or something he was like "Damn, I'm going to end up 5-19".....When you're a scorer, "the next one is going in". It doesn't matter if you don't like the notion. If Francis is shooting well, you think we'd be happy with 19? If he were 11-19, would you be happy? HELL no. You'd want him to shoot more because he's "on". Same thing when he's off. Shooters shoot. "The next one is going in". You can't think any other way. That's the universal mentality. It's also the mentality of ALL offensively brilliant players. His teammates weren't hitting, and the ones who were, he got shots to. He got the ball to Ming and Rice, Iremember specifically, on more than one occasion. About defense, there's no argument. He's putting in the effort. Millerwas making all sorts of leaners, floaters, and circus shots. it's not like he drained sweet J's over Francis all day. You didn't praise him when we trounced Philadelphia by absolutely destroying Allen Iverson. It didn't see to matter that Steve put in a great defensive AND offensive effort on that game. One night off. When he has a bad streak, then bring out the threads. For a single game, there's a Clippers@Rockets thread. Don't make it sound like the Rockets are struggling for survival, and are lottery bound, because Francis has stunk it up for 5 or 6 games. Bad night. Sleep on it.
So did you actually see the game last night, Manny, or are you just reading the box score? TheRealShady said it best early in the thread, and he was largely ignored. Francis didn't play too badly last night. He was shooting from the outside early, but towards the end of the game most of the shots he took were on drives where he either missed the layup (won't happen very often with Steve) or he was fouled and got no call (which seems to be happening more and more often with Steve). These are not shots that I got upset at him for taking. It sucks that he was missing them, but if you don't want you star player taking those kind of shots at the end of the game when he has them, then you might as well trade him right now because you apparently think he is worthless.
Raven, To answer your question, no; however, I feel that this situation is more problematic than just one game. It boils down to the fact that Francis is NOT a true point guard. And Sane, So what if he went 11-19 one game and "destroyed" Iverson?? If your point guard is taking 19 shots, then it is OBVIOUS he is doing a piss poor job of getting others involved in the offense. It really isn't that hard to understand. And I'm sorry that I don't have the time to wade through every freaking thread here in this forum to give Francis his props when he does play well, but hey, I'll put that down on my "to-do" list. The bottom line is that I believe that your point guard should be creating scoring opportunities for his teammates. Even if Francis is having a great night scoring, it still hurts us because we are not having any other players develop on offense. Maybe you guys like your point guards to be that way. I guess y'all are fans of the alien head aka Marbury.
What really frustrated me last night was watching Francis play defense. It was just non-existent. When you're guarding a player like Miller, why not back off of him a little and invite Miller to take the long range shot rather than letting him blow by you every single time for an easy floater, or short jumper. If his defense doesn't vastly improve soon not only will the opposing point guard burn us every single night, our big men are going to be in foul trouble all the time trying to pick up for his slack.
