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Are you fed up with Moreyball yet?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Ultimate6thMan, Mar 15, 2012.

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Are you feed up with Moreyball strategy yet?

  1. Yes, I don't have any more faith in Morey's system. It's all his fault.

    75 vote(s)
    21.0%
  2. I still have faith in Morey's strategies, he just needs more time and better luck..

    172 vote(s)
    48.2%
  3. It's not Morey's fault, Les has hampered his system.

    73 vote(s)
    20.4%
  4. It's both Morey's and Les' fault and I am fed up with both.

    37 vote(s)
    10.4%
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  1. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Morey absolutely said at a press conference that being "terrible" was "the way" to get better in the NBA...but that Les does not want to do that because wanted to keep a good team while rebuilding. That was absolutely said. Clutch wrote an article about it agreeing with him before the season started....Clutch said this team would be better off losing in that article.
     
  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    here is what Les did say in an interview with Feigen:
    http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2011/12/rockets-owner-leslie-takes-job-as-fan-seriously/

    Alexander’s team is now mired in a stretch in which it has won only one playoff series in the past 14 seasons.

    But don’t try to convince him that a complete house cleaning to unofficially tank a season in hopes of acquiring a franchise-changing lottery pick is the right move.

    “I’ve been offered that situation (as an option),” Alexander said. “It’s very tough for me to lose. I just don’t like losing. To see my team (as) garbage makes me very unhappy to tell you the truth.

    “I don’t like losing, I just don’t.”
     
  3. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Agree, to an extent. If you assume you have to build around Yao while he's here (and I do, as you can't design a championship team with a $15m guy on the roster and not plan on him being an integral part), Morey's been fighting with one hand tied behind his back to an extent.

    I think he's proven very skilled at identifying and acquiring an excellent support cast. Picking up a Lowry for Rafer, drafting Budinger/Parsons/Landry in the 2nd round, slick acquisitions like Dragic+a first for an erstwhile Aaron Brooks, Scola for VSpan, and even the recent move for Camby.

    It makes me wonder what would've happened if Morey had started just a couple of years earlier. When Morey took over, Yao and Tracy had been in place for 3 years, but the #3 scorer was Rafer Alston (as he had been the year before, taking over that role from Jimmy Jackson), and Luther Head was right behind him. Over the next 2 years, he added Scola, Artest, Brooks, and Landry, at pretty minimal costs, along with less successful experiments like Bonzi Wells. At that point though, both Yao and Tracy were basically toast.

    What Morey hasn't shown is the ability to land a centerpiece, and that's ultimately what he is and will be graded on.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Then he has nothing against losing out big.... because we might win single games in the playoffs but we are losing series after series.....
    that does not seem to irk him. I am not sure if he is being ignorant or what, in all his 20 years everyone knows weak teams get upgrades.
    If 9th place or first round exit makes him happy year after year, so be it.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Le$ just wants to keep the butts in the seats and the money in his pocket, he has his championships, he doesn't want to go through the pain necessary (losing $$$ on the Rox valuation cough cough) to get another one.

    Personally, I hope the old goat just sells the team, he stinks as an owner as far as I am concerned.

    DD
     
  6. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    Less cap room for what after Dwill himself the next best player in the league is Ilyasova and he is only slightly better than Humphries. I am not saying I would do ithe same. I am not crazy about Wallace because of off the court stuff. But his talent is off the chart and getting out of Portland could help him even more.

    NJ had a big whole at the 3 and it's GONE! There's only few players in the league that would have been better. (Lebron) Wallace is perfect for that team because Lopez is a bit soft on the boards. Wallace gives them a 2 way player and elite defender and one of the best rebounding 3's not named Lebron. So they now have 2 great rebounders around Lopez and someone to cover Lebron and Anthony.

    As far as Dwill staying or going they have no control over that. But winning can only help. They are probably not going to catch either Milwaukee or the knicks but if they win out Dwill would have to be happy about that. And let's face it NJ is doing the exact same thing Morey was trying to do with Howard hold on to him and roll the dice that he would not walk away from 30 million guaranteed. In the end I think Dwill will go the way of CP3 and Howard. Sign for one more year and add an extra 35 million to his guaranteed money next year. Doing that and staying with NJ makes it a total of 65 million more than Dallas can guarantee him. Not to mention the likely better shoe deal he can get. I just do not see Dwill walking from that, Not going to happen IMO. Nobody loves Dallas that much.

    And then there is always the shot at another DHoward deal at the next trade deadline. That's right waiving his eto didn't resolve the Howard problem at all it only postponed it. If Howard wanted to end it he could have signed for 5 years right now. Look for the same deal next trade deadline and look for Jersey offering up Lopez and Wallace plus whatever 1st round picks they have and look for Morey trying to trump that again.

    The loser in all this will be Dallas they dumped a chance to compete another year at a title for a pipe dream. The only way I see this going another way is if Cuban has underground deal with DWill worth 10s of Millions.
     
  7. SupermoochieFro

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    It's sad really because if you take what Morey's actually good at which is finding "under the radar", "diamonds in the rough", type of players, he'd actually be well suited as a GM of a rebuilding team starting from scratch.
     
  8. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Just an example of the total ignorance of many of the posters on this site. Throwing out just Durant's numbers without any like comparison of his opponent. I don't know if it is lack of mental rigor, being emotionally blinded or just plain stupidity.

    Or maybe I just don't get it. But it sure looks like a slight win by Durant - ONE OF THE TOP 5 PLAYERS IN THE NBA. And he was playing against a rookie. In my book it doesn't get better than this. Oh wait, Parsons is a rookie - it could get better!

    MIN FG-A FT-A 3P-A REB (O/D) AST PF ST TO BLK PTS

    Parsons * 37:04 9-16 0-0 3-5 7 (2/5) 6 2 1 0 0 21
    Durant * 37:38 8-18 8-9 4-8 12 (1/11) 4 1 1 4 1 28
     
  9. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    Morey has been wasted.
    Les loves nothing but money.
     
  10. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    So Parsons is on Durant level? Were you kidding or dreaming ?
     
  11. jtr

    jtr Member

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    No I did not say that. I said that in the entire NBA that our SF position graded out as a B. And that OKC (Durant) and Miami (LBJ) graded out as an A+. The discussion degenerated from there.

    And I stand by my assessment. We are so much better with Parsons at the SF position than we have been in recent memory. And Parsons is still a rookie.

    I don't see that there is much to argue about.
     
  12. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    That's not even close to the same thing!

    No owner likes losing. Paul Allen hates it too. He has said as much. But that does not mean he is controlling Morey's every move. On the contrary he seems to be very pleased at what Morey has accomplished and let's him have free reign. I do not believe for one second that Les would have said NO! if Morey walked into his office and said "Boss this team the way it is constructed just can not win and getting a star without losing is not going to happen". Les would have said yes okay do it. I believe Les values Moreys judgement more than Drexler and Les stated that he hired Adelman because of Drexler.

    And all of the blind Morey followers can't have it both ways! Say Morey is a brilliant GM only his boss won't let him be. That makes him a lousy GM. The power of persuasion is a key element in being a good Gm. You have to convince Orlando our assets are better than NJs. You have to convince your owner that trading away Battier for Thabeet and a first round pick for TWill is a good roll of the dice!

    Nope! I do not believe Les is dictating Moreys moves. And anyone who believes that underestimates Moreys intelligence and wherewithall. I would go so far as to say Morey may even have persuaded Les to go this direction by explaining a path.

    I also think Morey still has a plan. Howard is not off the table. Reports where that if a Howard trade was made it would be to Houston and that Houston was still talking till 11 am. Ask yourself why is Martin still on this squad. I do not believe for one second Minny would not have given us Beasley and some other asset for him. Adelman loves him too much.

    But Martin is a great expiring contract to add to the pot if necessary. And why is Houston looking for 1st round picks. Why? Because he wants to have all the assets lined up when Orlando ask Howard to sign on the dotted line and he refuses. Orlando could already have an agreement with Houston. Certainly they have a working relationship after all of this. Same time next year is how I think their conversation ended.

    I think Morey has not given up on Howard. I think Morey may still believe he can pull it off. And I say more power to him. I am not a Morey hater, just unlike some on here I do not believe he can do no wrong. I do not always like his moves but I have never said I was smarter than him. And I think he is learning fast working hard and getting better and he truly wants to be the best GM in the league and make the Rockets champions. Can't complain about that. And I am not interested in firing him at all.
     
    #152 Old Man Rock, Mar 16, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  13. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    That's a misquote. He said "the easiest way." He said nothing about the way with the best odds. I think he likes a challenge.

    I don't think he wants to be the GM who tanks...because anyone can do that and many, many GMs try that "easy way." It is a huge gamble, and he seems like the type of guy who:

    likes a big challenge,
    likes the media writing about how smart he is,
    likes to stay in control and not take huge risk...
    doesn't like to take the "easy way" out on a gamble.

    I know the big argument is looking at all the championship teams. I know all the history. But if you look at the all titles teams plus the teams that lost in the finals, there are more examples of teams in high contention for a title who didn't tank -- sometimes one play stopped them from winning. He might be looking at that.

    bottomline: More said "the easiest way." He has never said the odds of making to the Finals versus remaining at the bottom for a long time. I'm quite positive he knows the odds, and has presented the options with odds to Les with Morey's OK on each option.
     
  14. Almu

    Almu Member

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    Its not that its lack of patience or use of bandwidth...

    This type of trading, player acquisition...Morey is a genius **** is getting old.

    Yea, Yao retiring hurt the organization but you HAD TO KNOW there was a chance he would NEVER play EVER the way he did in 04-05 if at all!

    I tweeted Clutch about it 2 years ago and I am not a GM but I know business.

    When you trying to run an organization, you have to anticipate and try to look not just to next week. You can argue that is what Morey is trying to do or is doing now. But lord...can we see just a SEMBLANCE of a plan or direction?

    We are not the Clippers or the Kings or the Blazers or any other team some may point to as having less success than the Rockets over the last 20 years. But who gives a crap.

    Its been almost 20 years since a championship and 15 years since we even mattered with the exception of 2 years with Yao. I want to win. I want to see Morey freakin explain what the hell he is thinking and what the hell is the plan.

    Gasol trade means what? It doesn't count. Never happened.

    We just meander at .500 and get the crappy draft pick? Yea, thats a Genius right there for ya!

    The owner/GM combo is not working for me the last couple of years. And probably not much my opinion or our collective opinion can do about it for the foreseeable future.
     
  15. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    He never said that!
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    really?


    http://rockets.clutchfans.net/1901/for-rockets-winning-2012-would-be-nice-losing-might-be-better/


    “Leslie [Alexander] has an approach I totally agree with,” said Morey. “He really believes that we need to turn the corner while remaining competitive. That’s the plan. I do think being terrible is definitely the way to get better in the NBA, but it’s not the way Mr. Alexander wants to go about it. He wants to turn the corner, get back to having a strong foundation while remaining competitive. He feels the Houston fans deserve that.”
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    uh, no. that's not what he said and i can guaran-damn-tee you that alexander's approach is about keeping fans in the seats in the near-term (a strategy that isn't working, i'd like to point out) and not about how quickly or effectively he can pull the franchise back up to the status of a championship contender.
     
  18. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    It looks like it is mostly the owner's decision, which would make sense. Knowing how Morey operates, he's going to do what he thinks gives him the best odds of winning a championship. And when pretty smart people say over and over that you don't want to be stuck in that 40-win territory at those sports conferences, he just has one of those "Yeah, I know" looks on his face and doesn't say anything.

    Look at this quote from Morey (I'm not able to find where it originally came from -- did Rockets.com remove this interview for some reason?):

    http://rockets.clutchfans.net/1901/for-rockets-winning-2012-would-be-nice-losing-might-be-better/

    [rquoter]
    Leslie [Alexander] has an approach I totally agree with,” said Morey. “He really believes that we need to turn the corner while remaining competitive. That’s the plan. I do think being terrible is definitely the way to get better in the NBA, but it’s not the way Mr. Alexander wants to go about it. He wants to turn the corner, get back to having a strong foundation while remaining competitive. He feels the Houston fans deserve that.”[/rquoter]

    Notice the way he phrases it. The rebuilding approach is how Mr. Alexander wants it. He of course tacks on the obligatory "I agree with it" because he doesn't want to send a signal that he and his boss are in conflict. Maybe he agrees with it "in principle" or something. But from that, I don't think its Morey's decision or even a joint decision. Its what Les wants, and Morey is obliged to follow that path.
     
  19. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    1. Feigen raises the direct question regarding tanking, and Les Alexander said "I've been offered [the option of tanking" but "I don't like losing" and "seeing my team (as) garbage." It is true that he didn't say he would never ever tank. However he did quite strongly indicate that he does't like it.

    2. This is consistent with what others have said bout Les Alexander. For example, Jeff Van Gundy in a recent interview at the MIT Sports Analytics Conference said that Daryl Morey's job is make more difficult because "ownership" did not want to tank for a top pick. Now, Van Gundy doesn't work for the Rockets anymore, but he likely still knows guys who do and has a good handle on what's going on.

    Bill Worrell and Clyde Drexler also said many times this year that Dalembert was someone the Les pushed to sign. Pushing to sign Dalembert isn't exactly what a pro-tanking owner (or even someone who wouldn't mind tanking) does.

    3. Nobody says Alexander is "controlling Morey's every move." He's not gonna personally scout the college prospects and put together the draft chart. However, as an owner, he does get to set the general direction of the team's "big picture" strategy (like whether to tank for a high pick or not) and hold the final sign-off on the deals.

    I doubt that if Les decided he really wants Anthony Davis and wants to tank for him, Daryl Morey gets to go rogue on his ass and try to assemble the talent to make the playoffs.
     
  20. Margrave

    Margrave Member

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    No doubt Morey works for Les and he has to do the best he can, ultimately it will probably cost him his job, but he is laying enough things in the press where he has deniability and that it is not his fault.

    Smart man.
     
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