Last year I felt Eddie was on the way to greatness. I would not have traded him for anybody. Well ok for Shaq and Kobe, but nothing that was not hinting of just plain old stupidness. I have not given up on him, but man the bloom is off the rose for me. I thought the rookie wall hit him last year. Time off, a season under his belt, an off season of weight training, and a full preseason as a vet, not a wide eyed 19 year old rookie would make him great. Unfortunately, he seems to have picked up right where he left off. I basically believe that greatness shows up real quick. I can't think of many people who were ok for three or four years, then were great. Donyell Marshall, not so good, then pretty good, but not great. Steve Francis, the Dream, and many others made an impact the first year. Room to grow, but they were full time players by the end of their first year. Quarter of the way through year two, and we still are not seeing that. I am not trying to get rid of Eddie, but if he could make a trade happen for us that solidified a position for years (Elton Brand or such) I would have to let him go. I have lowered my expectations for him from "truely great" to maybe a Sam Perkins. Of course I am keeping my fingers crosed that he breaks out before the end of the year.
Pat, I think you may be right. But the fact that he only went to 1 year of college gives us more hope. It took a few years for Garnett and Kobe to develop into startes. Nowitzki took a little while too. Ricky Davis is doing well this year. There are only rare exception after many years though. Steve Nash comes to mind.
What really concerns me is that each of these players showed HUGE improvement between year 1 and year 2. Nowitzki averaged 16-7 his second year compared to 8-4 his rookie year. Garnett averaged 17-8 compared to 10-6 his rookie year. Kobe Bryant practically doubled his production between yr 1 and yr 2 in PPG, APG and RPG. The only real examples of players that I can think of that didnt show much the first few yrs and then went onto being really good are Steve Nash and Jermaine O'Neal. Nash was stuck behind Kidd and KJ his first two seasons in Phoenix (not to mention, the PG position takes a long time to learn in the NBA) and then suffered serious injuries his first two seasons in Dallas. Nash blossomed during his first reasonably healthy season in Dallas. In O'Neal's case, it can be attributed to getting very little PT by being stuck behind Rasheed Wallace and Brian Grant. O'Neal did not even get 15 MPG in his first 4 seasons in Portland. The first season he got legitimate PT was in Indiana and immediately averaged 13-10. From that point on, he has continued to improve and is at 20-11 this season. Despite getting PT and the starting position handed to him at the beginning of the season, Griffin still has not shown much improvement. I really hope Griffin can develop into the player some believe he can. At this stage, I would be happy if he can just become an effective rebounder/defender in this league that wont get pushed around. Im willing to live with the incessant perimeter game if he can have more defensive efforts like he did against Duncan in the 4th qtr of the Spurs game. My standards have dropped big time for Eddie.
The real question is, if you bother asking or answering, who's a better fit for the 'Dynasty-Franchise' Rockets? - Griffin is the better defender, forms 1/2 of a potentially frightening shot-blocking tandem, and doesn't need to dominate the ball to be effective. - Stoudamire is the better athlete, has the potential to create his own shot, and, all things being equal, should provide the most 'muscle.' - Rebounding: Stoudamire's explosiveness & aggression vs. Griffin's control & length - EVEN - Stoudamire is the better dribbler, but Griffin is the better passer. - Griffin is limited offensively (nice touch & range, but few moves & little footwork), as is Stoudamire (average touch, limited yet surprising range, more explosive, but absolutely no moves or polish). Griffin's potential is a more mature Rasheed Wallace, Stoudamire could be a more mature Shawn Kemp. Verdict: Assuming both continue to develop, I'd still go with Eddie as the future PF. Health permitting, Yao & Steve will probably be Options 1 & 1A on offense. Eddie's game & personality would seem to be the better fit in that scenario, which is not a knock at all to Amare or Eddie, plus Eddie has the greater defensive potential.
Tough call. I believe in EG but have seen very little of AS. AS has not approached the 'wall' yet nor been a creative offensive force -- he may be great. Eddie will be. VOTE: EG
Live, your analysis looks the best to me so far. I think when Amare has developed into a full-blown NBA player, he will demand the ball a lot. Not so for Eddie. We don't need a PF who needs the ball a lot.
I think you're right, although I just thought about Olowokandi. And this is Ricky Davis' 5th year, and it looks like he can be a 20 point scorer in the NBA. Anyways, his offensive game hasn't improved at all and I don't see any reason why we should believe it will. I would like to see him go to a big man's camp and see if improvements in his footwork change anything.
Amare is a "power forward" whereas Griffin is one of those psuedo fancy types. Personally, I still think Griffin was corrupted last yr with the flinging of the 3's. I like guys who are limited and know that and then improves their limitations after getting good, very good at what they do best. Personally, I don't thin Griffin will be anything other than a no dribbling Antoine Walker type of forward. I would like to think other wise, but from early indications, thats what he is. I rerally wish he could have followed SAR modell in the type of 20 yr old we would have, but its not happening.
How can you say they are even in this category when Stoudamire is averaging 8 rebounds per game.. to Griffin's 5?
One thing for sure, Amare is more outgoing and aggressive than Griffin. I think in the long run, Amare will develop faster because of it. Amare does seem more athletic too. But it seems EG has got a better shooting touch and super long arms which gives him great shot blocking ability. It's realy a tough call.
(What's up with the edit feature?) Also, aka, Stoudamire plays a bigger role on the boards (as well as a different game) for the Suns than Eddie does for the Rocks. IMHO, Stoudamire MAY end up the better player, but Eddie's the better fit.
The perception of Eddie Griffin on this board amazes me. Was it not too long ago that we believed that Eddie and Steve were the future of this team? Getting Yao, put Eddie on the backburner which has somewhat impeded Eddie's progress. However, to say that Eddie plays with no heart is a statement that has no merit. Were there not fans on this board that compared Eddie to Tim Duncan because he played the game and didn't make faces, or yell and scream? I will agree that it seems that Eddie has regressed, however to say that we can only hope that he'll become a servicable PF is absurd. This a new system that the Rockets are playing, and Eddie is trying to find his niche` in it. Eddie is playing defense, and is forming a great frontline with Yao, his offense will come around. Has everyone forgotten the saying that great defense begets offense? Give the man some time. If you remember, Eddie was the #1 player rated on the Rockets draft analysis for 2001. Last year Eddie had to resort to putting up ill-advised three pointers, thus looking like Robert Horry, but EG has so much more. The Rockets thought he was the best player out of that draft and traded three first rounders for him, that alone speaks volumes of their assesment of Eddie's talent. Eddie has one professional season under his belt, that is still not enough to warrant him being a great player. The other factor that holds EG back is the lack of playing time. He can't be consistent getting 30 minutes one night and 12 the next. He has to get into the flow of the game. Lets ask the question, what are we expecting of Eddie Griffin? I expect him to score around 13-15 points on the shots he gets, and to play defense (which includes rebounding). If we expect him to come out and score twenty, then thats an unreal expectation. There aren't enough shots for him to do that. As for Amare Stoudemire, he was the guy I wanted the Rockets to draft before we won the lottery. He then became the second guy I wanted the Rockets to draft because he plays a completely different game---Brute Strength which would be a great asset to have coming off the bench. Stoudemire is a physical presence, he is the enforcer that alot of teams want in a PF. Whereas EG is along the lines of a Rasheed Wallace/Tim Duncan type. He plays out on the perimeter more. I will agree that Stoudemire looks impressive, and would probably be in the running for ROY, but I believe Yao is head and shoulders above the rest (yes the pun was intended). Eddie had a good game tonight, and thats a start, when all is said and done and the smoke has cleared I think that Eddie will be the starter at the 4. The other thing that separates Eddie's progress from Nowitski's, Francis's, Kobe's, Garnett's, etc. is that all those players were implemented into the system that their teams ran. Steve is a completely different player now than he was as a rookie and a as a sophomore, but we had patience with him. Lets try to do the same with Eddie.
Amare would be nice to have. The guy is a true banger. A TRUE POWER FORWARD. He is going to have a great game. Already is holding his own in the league.
