[$Tip Jar Bet]Marcus vs. Kawhi

This is the most flawed logic that has somehow become mainstream and the reason why most GM's get fired from drafting on this mystical "potential". Go look at 80's/90's rosters when every player stayed at minimum 3 usually 4, and tell me that those guys didn't improve. Olajuwon got red-shirted his first year in 1980 and left in '84. Hell our own coach went from 4 yrs. at MN averaging 10 pts. his first year in the league to 6 years later averaging 26 pts. But I guess they didn't improve.

 

More on the Parsons vs Leonard defensive comparison:

Code:

[B]                        Chandler Parsons                Kawhi Leonard
                      ----------------------        -----------------------
                      Poss     Points   PPP         Poss     Points   PPP
                      ----------------------        -----------------------[/B]
Team Defense          1653     1666     1.01        1389     1447     1.04
Individual (Synergy)  288      204      0.71        261      238      0.91
  Isolation           55       26       0.47        53       53       1.00
  P&R Ball Handler    63       48       0.76        72       72       1.00
  Post-Up             28       21       0.75        32       18       0.56
  P&R Roll Man        7        4        0.57        7        4        0.57
  Spot-Up             78       53       0.68        41       46       1.12
  Off Screen          42       38       0.90        44       38       0.86
  Hand Off            13       15       1.15        10       6        0.60

 

I haven't seen him play a bunch. I've only watched about 5 Spurs games this season. My claim comes from the numbers that durvasa just posted (via Synergy Sports). In ISO situations, players shoot 50% against Leonard. In PnR situations, ballhandlers shoot 51.9% against Leonard. In spot-up situations, shooters shoot 44.4% against Leonard (but 48% from 3, which accounts for 25 of the 36 total spot-up shots taken against him).

 

Only idiots think this. That's why good GMs like Pop and Morey draft so many 4 yr guys.

 

Jeremy Lin spent four years in college as well, and last season he increased his quickness by 30%.

In fact there are actually a ton of players that have improved after 4 years in college.

Carl Landry also spent 4 years in college, and we all know how much his game improved ever since coming into the league.

You never know what the ceiling of players are. Chandler Parsons has all the physical tools needed to be a very good player. He is extremely tall for his position, but also extremely athletic. His offensive game needs a lot of work, but his defense is already at an elite level.

 

At this point, prior to the draft means exactly squat.

 

Wow those Parsons numbers seem pretty sick. Where do you generate that data from?

 

interesting thread watchin the infighting, can't wait to see who the baby's daddy is

 

Yeah I just saw those stats from Durvasa. WoW !!!

Nice post and reply btw.

 

I do not want to be on the opposite side on this debate and against Parsons because I love the kid. He represents everything I love about basketball and IMO a story close to LIN in many ways. That being said what I have to ask myself who would I pick today if I had a choice between Leonard and Parsons knowing what I know now?

And in all sincerity I would be hard pressed to take Parsons over Leonard as much as I love Parsons. And I tell you why. IMO Leonard has the potential to be very good on both sides of the court! Leonard is already a better all around player. And at the age of 20 he is a kid compared to Parsons! Almost three years younger.

Yes Parsons can improve his free throw shooting and 3pt shooting but it is pathetic now and Leonard is much better now with a coach demanding he excel on the defensive end. And Leonard has shown to be more than capable of scoring when asked to. In a recent game with Parker Ginobli and Duncan out he scored 24 on 9 for 12 shooting. He is the 5th option on offense but he is not afraid to shoot from behind the arc or drive up the middle for a slam.

Add that with the fact that Parsons is clearly a sharp kid who picks up basketball and defensive technique at a rapid rate and Leonard depends more on his athleticism to defend, which up until this point has not been too shabby, it is safe to say Leonard has much more room for improvement.

Here is what Popovich had to say and he rarely gives out compliments...

You can argue that Parsons is a better defender and I will concede that albeit not as great as some on this board would like to claim but if you can not at least consider the possibility that Leonard may be the better all around player than I have to question your authenticity.

 

^Old Man Rock: Popovich basically praised Leonard's defense, which was his forte coming out. And the Rockets have made similar comments about Parsons' defense, comparing him to Battier.

On offense, Leonard was never a good shooter in college. His problem is that his huge hands is somewhat of a detriment to shooting. Parsons OTOH has a very nice shooting motion. Also, Parsons was hailed as a very good passer coming out of college, making him kind of an all-rounder on offense. Sure, Leonard's younger, but he's never shown to have high offensive potential. Otherwise it would've made no sense for the Rockets to draft Morris, who is basically the opposite of Leonard in terms of skillset.

I don't know how their careers will go from here, but I think Parsons has just as much potential if not moreso than Leonard due to his innate passing ability.

 

You talk about his negatives and skip over his positives as if they were nothing. But his positives were great. He was an amazing athlete with an above average reach, huge hands and a natural defender in college. I saw him as Battier with athleticism. A lot of athleticism. Battier could not drive to the lane he could not cover up the passing lanes and steal they way this kid can. It is why I was so high on him and I why when he was available at the 14th pick I was so convinced he was ours.

Yeah he wasn't the best shooter in college. But shooting is the one area most pros seem to improve on over the years and the kid was still 19. All I needed was a sign that he wouldn't always be pathetic at shooting and I was in for him. And I got that when all the pre-draft reports and combines showed he had already improved his shot considerably. And to think that he would not continue to improve and be better than Parsons when he is already much better now and is much younger to work on it is just blind optimism or pessimism however you wish to look at it.

Also I do not know how anyone could not at least consider the possibility that he will continue to improve when he is so young and appears to have a great attitude. I don't get that.

It is one of the things I love about Parsons he puts it all on the floor and backs down from no one but came in with more experience than Leonard and is a much quicker learner.

Your theory about the hands thing may have some merit and yes 65% free throw shooting and 35% 3 point shooting is nothing to brag about but projecting Parsons to be better when he has had more time to improve and appears to have the work ethic to try as hard as possible to improve and currently can not shoot as well as Leonard right now, is IMO wishful thinking.

There is no doubt in my mind Leonard has the physical ability to be better. That being said I would never bet against Parsons because he is such a smart kid and I love his attitude and heart. And a wise man once said a while back "Never underestimate the heart of a champion" and I try not to make that mistake. But let me just say it appears Leonard has some heart too.

 

basketballvalue.com for the team defense with each player on the floor, and mysynergysports.com for the individual defensive stats.

 

I love the future of Marcus Morris, but Kawhi Leonard is one guy I am deathly frightened of.

20 years old, and he is looking like a complete stud.

*48% from two
*37% from three
*8 rebounds and 2 steals per 36
*Low turnovers, and just a great teammate and smart player.

Marcus has a lot to live up to.

 

How's larry sanders going OMR?

 

Look Parsons is great. But why Morris instead Kahwi? I still dont get it and never will.

I understand the need to pick for talent over need. But still why Morris? It is so abundantly clear who is the better NBA (not college) player. And it was obvious to me back before the draft as well.

For every steal that Morey has there is always a miss too.

 

Hey not everything is a hit, Morey has way more gems than misses as far as drafts go

 

Too early to call it a bust.

Carl Landry and Patterson were also players that didn't get any minutes, and a lot of posters were calling Patterson a bust before he showcased himself.

It's not really a good time for Morris right especially since we are in playoff contention.

 

The Votes Are In: Irving's The One
Kyrie Irving's stats made him an easy pick for the award, as he was just one of six rookies in league history to average at least 18 points and five assists. Voting totals, from a national panel of 120 sportswriters and broadcasters:

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<table class="tableizer-table">
<tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th> </th><th>1st</th><th>2nd</th><th>3rd</th><th>Pts</th></tr> <tr><td>Kyrie Irving, Cle</td><td>117</td><td>2</td><td>1</td><td>592</td></tr> <tr><td>Ricky Rubio, Min</td><td> </td><td>49</td><td>23</td><td>170</td></tr> <tr><td>Kenneth Faried, Den</td><td>1</td><td>30</td><td>34</td><td>129</td></tr> <tr><td>Kawhi Leonard, SAS</td><td>1</td><td>9</td><td>15</td><td>47</td></tr> <tr><td>Iman Shumpert, NY</td><td>1</td><td>7</td><td>7</td><td>33</td></tr> <tr><td>Klay Thompson, GS</td><td> </td><td>5</td><td>15</td><td>30</td></tr> <tr><td>Isaiah Thomas, Sac</td><td> </td><td>6</td><td>10</td><td>28</td></tr> <tr><td>Brandon Knight, Det</td><td> </td><td>6</td><td>3</td><td>21</td></tr> <tr><td>Chandler Parsons, Hou</td><td> </td><td>3</td><td>5</td><td>14</td></tr> <tr><td>MarShon Brooks, NJ</td><td> </td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>4</td></tr> <tr><td>Kemba Walker, Cha</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>3</td><td>3</td></tr> <tr><td>Josh Selby, Mem</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>1</td><td>1</td></tr></table>

 

Way to put your name on it. Of course I cant prove I wanted Kawhi Leonard on our team over Marcus Morris. I am not gonna go look because I ended up praising Morris after we drafted him. Its a combination of Parsons working out and Morris getting no shot to play. So far? Bust.