KG-- The answer to our forward problem... Houston trades: PF Maurice Taylor (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 17.1 minutes) SF Glen Rice (9.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.4 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (5.8 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.4 apg in 20.8 minutes) PF Eddie Griffin (8.1 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.9 minutes) Houston receives: SF Kevin Garnett (20.9 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 5.9 apg in 40.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: -8.1 ppg, -5.4 rpg, and +2.2 apg. Minnesota trades: SF Kevin Garnett (20.9 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 5.9 apg in 40.9 minutes) Minnesota receives: PF Maurice Taylor (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 13 games) SF Glen Rice (9.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 15 games) C Kelvin Cato (5.8 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13 games) PF Eddie Griffin (8.1 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18 games) Change in team outlook: +8.1 ppg, +5.4 rpg, and -2.2 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Houston and Minnesota being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Minnesota had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. G-S. Francis G-C. Mobley F-K. Garnett F-K. Thomas C-Y. Ming -------------------------- G-M. Norris G-J. Hawkins F-B. Najbar F-T. Morris C-J. Collier --------------------------- 1.P. Mickeal 2.Tito Maddox
Why would Minnesota trade a top 5 player for nobodies?! Okay...maybe Griff can become something but if he fulfills his potential, he'll become....the next Kevin Garnett!! Why trade what you already have for something that may never be. The only way Minnesota does this is if they can get Stevie or Yao for it. And you had to trade that many people to cover KG's salary! What happens when Cat and Yao's contracts are up?!?!
i Sorry for this waste of space...I was editing my previous message and kept hitting the reply button
terps....did you think before you made this post? that has to be the most absurdly horrible trade i have ever seen. why would the t-wolves trade away KG? he is their only chance at being good. why would the t-wolves trade KG for MoT, rice, cato and EG? 3 of those players are waaay overpaid and have no value for building a franchise around and EG is just looking like he will only develop into maybe an above average player unless he completely reworks his offensive game. finally...why in the world do you post your change in team outlook as if it is actually realistic? the NBA is not a yahoo fantasy league where you can offer up 3 terrible players and one decent one and hope that the other moron will accept on the basis that he gets more stats. of course 4 players are going to add more points and assists (and its sad that they dont get more rebs) because the 4 players play nearly 100 minutes a game for those stats versus garnetts 40 minutes. maybe franchise and eg would get garnett, but not those crapsters you threw in
If and when it becomes clear Minnesota will NOT make the playoffs (regression) this year -- what choice will they have but to deal him. Why stay w/ the same team that couldn't make it out the 1st round 6 years in a row? Our bench would be weaker but I'd put our starters up against the western conference all-star starters (hey wait-- at least 3 of them are Rockets- get the point) We could also fill the bench like Sacramento did w/ journeyman -- aka Jimmy Jackson types. Anytime you can get a top 5 player like KG W/ out shaking your foundation -- DO IT. In addition, you can't have it both ways. You call our guys scubs- then say when you remove them we are at a loss - which is it?
If they traded Garnett, they won't saddle themselves with MoT and Cato's contracts. Griffin will never be as good as Garnett. It's a given. When they re-negotiate Garnett's contract, it will be under the new CBA, so his max will be around 12M, and they've been negotioating to make it less so that the team can be competitive too. Unless something really goes wrong in negotiations, he's a lock there. What Minny need to do is trade Wally for a real SG. The Knicks are such a perfect fit. Sprewell, Weatherspoon and a 1st rounder for Wally and Marc Jackson. Minnesotta don't need Jackson. Nesterovic is doing well, and he's backed up by Woods and sometimes Joe Smith. At the 4, there's Smith, Trent, and also Weatherspoon and Garnett. At the 3, it's Garnett, Weatherspoon, and sometimes Spree. At the 2, it's Spree, backed up by Hudson. At the 1, it's Hudson and Strickland, and possibly Brandon towards the season's end. Nesterovic/Woods/Smith Smith/Trent/Spoon/Garnett Garnett/Spoon/Spree Spree/Peeler/Hudson Hudson/Strickland Spree brings them defense, leadership, experience, and MOST important, CLUTCH play. That's what they need. Someone who steps it up in the playoffs, in the clutch. The attention Garnett recieves would make Spree infinitely better than he is with the smallish Knicks. Marc Jackson/Kurt Thomas (McDyess)/Kurt Thomas/Othella Wally Szerbiack/Shandon Houston/Shandon Eisley/Ward/Frank Williams At worse, the Knicks stay just as competitive, while getting younger. They also get a young C with a VERY reasonable contract. When/if Mcdyess comes back, this team falls into place as an East contender. A post presence like him would do wonders for Wally, Houston, and Marc Jackson too. That's a very talented offensive team.
ok by that statement you make it sound as if it is garnett's fault that the t-wolves suck and its not. it is the fact that his teams can't stay together. it kind of hurts losing players like billups and brandon. i like how you just declare that we have a chance at getting garnett because you made up a trade. in case you forgot this was not a real proposal and we do not realistically have a chance at acquiring garnett without shaking up our foundation. i don't know where you randomly made up that we can get him without trading someone good. this offer would just be laughed at by mchale and i'm sure he would counter with an offer of terrell brandon for steve francis.
Beat me to it...I knew I would be eating my words (I had edited my post earlier). I didn't say our guys were scrubs but I can't see Minnesota going for our bad contracts. Maybe they'd take Cato, Boki, Griffin, and Cat. But how do you explain a salary cap situation where Yao, Garnett, Stevie make the max and Cat's gonna come close to it.
It's not Garnetts fault they suck but - THEY SUCK. He has a 100 million dollar contract- and is due for a raise next year. Insanity would be to continue for another 6 years w/ the same personel. KG has the highest trade value on the team. There are only 2 players w/ value on the team KG and Wally - they just resigned Wally, despite a poor relationship on and off the court w/ Garnett. Would we have resigned Cat or Mobley if Steve couldn't stand them? Mchale considered dealing KG for Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson and J. Collins. I think this proposal tops that one by a mile. Glenn Rice frees 9 million for them next year.
For you to better understand why this trade won't work, I've put together some trades that would materialize if ANYONE thought Garnett was available: Iverson for Garnett Duncan for Garnett Kobe for Garnett 1st rounder, Desmond Mason, Rashard Lewis, and Radomanovich for Garnett and Wally Bonzi Wells, Rasheed Wallace and Damon Stoudamire for Garnett and Hudson Pau Gasol, Stromile Swift, and 2004 First rounder for Garnett Tyson Chandler, Jamaal Crawford, Marcus Fizer and Jalen Rose for Garnett and Hudson Zydrunas Illgauskas, Ricky Davis, Tyrone Hill, 2004 first rounder (no lebron james) for Garnett and Nesterovic Antawn Jamison and next year's First rounder (top 8 easily) for Garnett Should I go on? Do you see how many infinitely better deals there are than the one you proposed? Here's what they'd want from US: Eddie Griffin Bostjan Nachbar 2 non-protected first rounders within the next 3-4 years Rice's soon expiring contract KT's cheap contract Mobley's cheap contract They may even want to swap Joe Smith's bad contract with one of our decent contracts....They may want to swap him with the younger MoT...watever... Basically, if we held out Francis and Ming, they'd want everyone that has any use....and still, they'd merely consider it....and we'd be without starters.....We'd be starting T-Mo and Hawkins, while having back ups like Collier and Tito Maddox.... I must say though....I would do absolutely ANY deal that would bring us KG without trading Francis or Ming.....I would literally go to them, and tell them "2 unprotected first rounders ANYTIME you want, anyone else on the roster....you choose how to mix and match, swap contracts, give us your unwanted players..." Because when you have Ming, Garnett, and Francis....You don't need picks....You don't need a bench.....You don't need anything but 3 jerseys.....I think the league prohibits a team from having such players, lol....
Maryland, If you're going to argue, know the facts. Garnett, IF MAXED OUT, will make half of his current salary. He is in fact negotiating a deal that won't have him maxed out. He doesn't have to continue with the same peronel - they just trade the personel. They free up 12M in Garnett's contract, and another 9M on Brandon's contract next year. Wally's contract eats into some of that, but if they can swing a deal for an expiring contract, they can sign a player @6-7M next year. The deal McHale considered was Jefferson, K-Mart, Kittles and Collins for Garnett and Peeler. BTW, he REJECTED it. How's our deal better than that? Minnesotta will wheel and deal big time this offseason. If jackson shows a puse, they can package him and a player for a solid player, then trade Wally for a great veteran (like Spree). They then have a great team and can compete big time. Oh, and they'll still have money to bring in an FA or two.
ok so garnett has a huge contract...how does it benefit the twolves to acquire an expensive aging rice, a very expensive cato who is about as good as rasho, and a struggling MoT who is overpaid as well? two of the three are locked into long term deals also. EG isn't expensive but he is nowhere near garnett's league. so it goes back to 3 overpaid players and one cheap one with potential to be above average. bottom line...t-wolves have a better chance to win with KG (a 7 footer who can play SF, PF, and C that can rebound, play defense, pass, and score...who also eats, drinks, and sleeps basketball) than with cato (overpaid, long term contract, bad work ethic, no offense), MoT (struggling, can't rebound, decent offense, no defense, overpaid, and long term contract), rice (overpaid, over the hill, no defense, good for 10 ppg), and EG (potentially great rebounder and defender who can't play offense)
Didn't we trade NJ half of those guys FOR EDDIE. Unless you are saying we failed in the draft day deal - thats the rational. Kittles sucks K-MART must be one of the worst 1st picks this side of my beloved (Maryland U) Joe Smith. Eddie could have bought us Rashard Lewis this summer if we desired. Eddie = R. Jefferson + Collins and a pick Mo Taylor w/ no rust and minutes is solid G. Rice = 9 million off the books 04' If we need to add Boki - Do it. Future 1st rounders - Do it.
Props to Maryland Terps. It's nice to see discussions reach an agrement. We both agreed that Garnett is THE MAN and we'd do anything to get him, but right now, we don't have as much as other teams can offer.. As for Robbie, he's exaggerated every single weakness on our team to support his argument... "bottom line...t-wolves have a better chance to win with KG (a 7 footer who can play SF, PF, and C that can rebound, play defense, pass, and score...who also eats, drinks, and sleeps basketball) than with cato (overpaid, long term contract, bad work ethic, no offense), MoT (struggling, can't rebound, decent offense, no defense, overpaid, and long term contract), rice (overpaid, over the hill, no defense, good for 10 ppg), and EG (potentially great rebounder and defender who can't play offense)" So what. Karl Malone doesn't eat, drink, sleep basketball, and he's arguably the best PF in history. I eat drink and sleep basketball, but I couldn't beat my university basketball coach's grandmother at a basketball game. Garnett can play C? Yeah Right. Garnett was moved to the 3 because he was being pushed around at the 4. You can drive a car with your feet, but that don't make it RIGHT. Cato is NOT overpaid. Anyone who's reading this thread, leave KNOWING that Cato is NOT overpaid. He is a starting calibre C, making 1.5M less than the average C (backups and starters). Meaning, he makes osmething like 2M less than starting C's. Aside from that, he's playing better than lots of starting C's. Aside from that, he has a great work ethic. He's been working hard, non-stop, on and off the court for 2 years now. How long does it take for you to say "Hey, maybe he's for real?". Two years he's been working hard. It's not a mood. MoT is decent at offense? 49.9% shooting when he was healthy. is that what you call "decent"? MoT can score with the best of them. He's not even an average rebounder, and he's no Ben Wallace either. But he's a decent defender, he plays hard, and he can score with the best of them. EG, potentially good rebounder/defender who can't play offense? you mean like people said about Garnett? This guy's 20, and has 2, not 1, but 2 more years to start producing. He just needs to put on some weight so he can bang more, and once he does that, he's Antonio McDyess-calibre. Rice is over the hill, and overpaid. But you forget that his contract is only for 1.5 more season, and he's still a shooter. He can shoot, and he has championship experience. That's valuable. I'm not saying our players are everything I wrote. I'm saying they have these qualities AS WELL. Don't make them out to be trash. Once this season's over, Rice will be a hot commodity because of his contract, his experience, and his shooting. Cato will have shown 2 continuous seasons of hard work. Griffin will finally fill out and do some damage. If you want to talk negative, I can say Garnett's too weak to play the 4, loses his shotblocking at the 3, and has never shown any signs of being clutch. Cannot carry his team in the playoffs, and isn't showing signs of improvement. Also, his contract is hindering his team. He's the reason they illegally signed Joe Smith to a contract, and has bad chemistry with Wally. See how's there's 2 sides to everything?
It's amazing how quickly people get down on a 20 year old. do you remember this... http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/eddiegriffin.htm Rasho is a lock to leave next year -Cato has high value now - deal him. Rice frees 9 million in valuable cap space next year. Mo T needs minutes to shake the rust but he's much better than their current starting power forward -- Gary Trent. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/gary_trent/index.html?nav=page
Another problem is, Timberwolves will be more hesistant to trade to a division rival. Man, KG would want to kill Minnesota (but I think he'd be happy to finally be out of there).
Eddie, Mo T, Cato, Rice and Boki + draft picks -- whatever. All those guys would try to prove us wrong. Eddie would have the next 16 or so years to try to kill us.
