Vitamins and Supplements

LOL! For real.

We need to eat fish at least 3 times a week and fish oil can help if we don't eat fish that often. I try to eat fish twice a week but sometimes I won't eat fish for a couple of weeks.

I am going to start taking chia seeds. Apparently, they are really good for you.

BTW, I tried your tip for AVC, DM. Man, it burned my throat at first!! Much more tolerable, though.

Oh, my hubby got this.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/usp/oxyelite-pro.html

Anyone of you try this? I am leery of supplements like this. I stopped taking Jack3d and started drinking a cup of straight black coffee before my workouts at 5:30am.

 

Yes, but water soluble vitamins, minerals, and supplements (like the ones you are taking) are excreted by the kidneys when ingested in excess amounts. I'm not saying that you are taking "excessive" doses, just that many of the things the body needs are found in the right proportions in a well balanced diet. You are probably not doing any harm to your body necessarily by taking these things, but it truly is unnecessary.

Any competent physician will tell you that these supplements are extraneous and vitamin deficiencies are exceedingly rare given our most of our foods are fortified these days. Yes, omega 3 can improve your lipid profile but it is a relatively small effect and needs to be consumed in high quantities to have that small effect. If you are a healthy person (and it sounds like you are) you do not even need to be doing this, just continue a balanced diet and exercise. Your lipid profile is determined MAINLY by genetics, secondarily by diet.

 

I think the point is that it's hard to have a properly balanced diet all of the time that covers all areas. He may not be deficient in any of these things but there is something to be said for improving the way you feel. Supplements can do that, even if it's partially placebo.

Personally, if I know I've gotten plenty of a particular vitamin through food (say, vitamin b) I wouldn't supplement it for a day or two. And some things, like cinnamon, are nearly impossible to work into a diet at the amount that is beneficial.

 

Really try to convince him to stay off stuff like that until he feels he's peaked with "natural" results. Psychologically, i think it helps tremendously to know how much you did on your own, which is usually the majority of your results. Otherwise, you'll attribute most of the change to a bottle and get hooked.

But if he still wants it, break down the ingredients, find out what they are suppose to do, how they can be found, and the cost of getting them separately. You may find you don't need or want certain ingredients, either because you get them elsewhere already (caffeine), there are red flags around them (1,3-Dimethylamylamine HCL), or because they are add-ons that don't contribute to your actual goal. For example, the included Yohimbe is more of a baby-maker than anything else :grin:

In the end, you may end up with a cheaper option or options, less worry, and similar or identical effects.

 

i would not use that. i would not use jack3d either. to me they are nothing but sugar and caffeine. also both contain banned substances in them. obviously you are not in a competitive league that tests for this stuff but why would you want to take supplements that have been banned by professional leagues?

http://drugfreesportrec.blogspot.com/2011/03/methylhexaneamine-1-3-dimethylamylamine.html

its very frustrating to have workout supplements constantly thrown at your face... the industry is basically unregulated thus the majority of products are nothing but marketing garbage.

diet is the most important thing when it comes to the body. sleep is secondary then exercise then supplements far behind.

if your workout isnt getting your adrenaline or 'pump' going then you need to change your workout. include more compound lifts or supersets. a lot of different things you can do.

also for those that want to take supplements but want a strictly from natural product. check out http://www.strongerfasterhealthier.com/ their products are 100% natural as in even the cow they get the milk from for whey is natural grass fed no antibiotics. however i do not have the money right now to afford them so i can not tell you first hand my opinion.

 

I guess the question though is what is a "properly balanced" diet? Or at least what is one that is "good enough." I suppose you can always be more "balanced," but would it always be worth it?

I sometimes get the sense that people just assume their diet is deficient in a large number of nutrients, and so they buy a bunch of supplements without even thinking about it (or asking their doctor...the mistake I made). They end up just spending money on "rich urine," like mentioned earlier. Not saying that's the case for people here (seems like people have put some research into vitamins, along with consulting with their doctor), but I think that might be a problem for some (including my past self).

I might have posted this before, but I thought it was a good breakdown on vitamins:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/another-negative-study-of-vitamins/

I ended up quoting most of the blog post, but there's a bit more at the link, specifically about targeted supplementation and a recent study on vitamins.

 

Whey
Creatine
Fish Oil
Multis

 

I think what you posted is a great argument against multi-vitamins. Nobody should need to rely on a mutli vitamin for all of those nutrients.

But most of the stuff listed in the OP, and stuff that I do take/will consider taking, is to do exactly what the name suggests -- "supplementing" a diet. Of course you can't just pop vitamins and expect that to cover up for not eating fruits and vegetables. It's hard to argue against natural supplements (ie cinnamon, fish oil, apple cider vinegar, etc.) when there is often a tangible difference in how you feel.

 

I don't particularly care how something "makes you feel," at least in terms of effectiveness (and only if a supplement is effective would I even begin to consider using it). Every post in this thread that said something like "I take ___ because it gives me more energy/makes me feel better/suppresses my appetite/etc.," I've ignored. That means little to nothing to me. In fact, it might even be a negative, if that is the best evidence available for a particular vitamin/supplement. Each one of those things could easily be attributed to placebo (which might be the most powerful drug known to man), or some other factor. That's why we have clinical studies (preferably double-blind studies at that) to judge the effectiveness of these types of things. Only then can you isolate the variable in question, and judge just how effective it is. Otherwise, if you just end up trusting how you feel, we end up in situations where it would suddenly be reasonable to recommend homeopathic remedies.

Of course, even if it is a placebo (and people are aware of it), it is difficult to say someone shouldn't continue taking the supplement, especially if it is relatively harmless otherwise. If taking ____ makes you feel more energetic/stronger/less sick/etc., then maybe you should continue. For me personally though, I'd like to see some strong (non-anecdotal) evidence to back it up.

(and as I mentioned earlier, I realize some of these vitamins/supplements DO have decent evidence behind them, and I haven't even bothered to really research them all...again, I was curious to see if anyone could show which ones had the best evidence behind them, which would help persuade me in taking them...assuming I thought the benefit was worth the asking price of course)

 

i agree somewhat with the placebo effect.

however you need to consider that every person is different and every persons diet is completely different. so what works for some wont work for everyone. because of this there will never be conclusive evidence that a vitamin/supplement is necessary.

personally i've recognized some problems/deficiency and researched what could help remedy them and try it. (have to take diet into account)

 

I'm not sure what some of you are arguing against in here....Niacin lowers cholesterol. Fish Oil (Omega-3's) lower triglycerides. Some of you seem to be claiming snake oil for a lot of supplements. Regarding these two, at least, take your argument to the FDA, I guess.

Anyway, I take:
Niacin 2000mg at bedtime for cholesterol
Fish Oil 3600mg at bedtime for triglycerides
Aspirin 160mg morning and night as a blood-thinner/anticoagulant

I take a few other things as well....a multi, for example....but those three things above I'm pretty religious about.

 

Surprised nobody has mentioned magnesium. It has a ton of benefits but it has personally helped me with reducing muscle twitches/spasms and reducing heart palpitations.

The only other supplements I have taken where I actually noticed a difference were L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP. I wouldn't claim that either produced a positive effect though. Hard to explain, but they made me feel kind of out of it.

 

That would be captured in a study I think, and probably has for some vitamins/supplements. Certainly those that are deficient in certain nutrients react more strongly to supplementation than those who are not, which I'm sure has been demonstrated in studies targeting different population groups. I definitely wouldn't use that as a way to disregard studies or anything like that.

If there is not conclusive evidence that a vitamin/supplement is effective (I wouldn't use the word necessary), then there is probably a good reason for it. I'm not going to give vitamins/supplements a free pass here. There's nothing really special about them. Design and execute a proper experiment with them, and it should be relatively easy to judge how effective they are. If they have little to no effect, I'd be more inclined to say they're ineffective, rather than try to come up with some explanation as to how they could appear ineffective yet could still magically be effective for some people...somehow.

There is no doubt that a lot of supplements are snake oil, or at least they are being marketed as such. Some supplements do have some uses, but they're marketed as being the cure for just about anything. Want to improve your immune system? Want more energy? Want more antioxidants? Then try SupplementX!

FDA doesn't really care whether a supplement is effective or not...and IIRC, they don't even require that much for proving "safety" (see Ephedra). Those things are only required for drugs IIRC.

As for Niacin and Omega-3s, from what I can tell, they definitely seem effective for cholesterol and triglycerides, among other things (seems to be good studies on this). I don't really have problems in those areas, so not really worried about taking them personally. But for people that do have high cholesterol, then this kind of targeted supplementation would likely be a good idea. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if many doctors do recommend it for their patients. Although I also wonder if there are more effective drugs out there, so they may end up recommending them instead (and taking both could either be ineffective or potentially dangerous).

I see a huge difference between taking Niacin/Omega-3s for lowering cholesterol, and taking something like SupplementX as I mentioned above (especially since there is no evidence that shows SupplementX is effective for anything...and in fact, maybe evidence that shows it is ineffective or maybe even harmful).

 

Humans dont't need fish oil. Millions of humans have survived plenty long without ever having eaten a fish. My grandmother lived deep into her 80's and refused to eat fish. Humans need what comes in our food.

 

I haven't had seafood for 10 years now, I'm fine. I take fish oil supplements a couple of months a year.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...useless-for-most/story-e6frg6so-1226163612985

A couple of months a year, I take a multivitamin, a multimineral, and a multi fish oil with vitamin D everyday. I don't feel any different at all except for the first few days. I wonder if they work at all honestly.

 

I think we might be having two different discussions here. I'm talking about supplements that are extracted from natural sources, not anything that is concocted in a lab (like all of these pre and post workout supplements you see).

I haven't searched for any extensive medical research, but it's fairly common knowledge that cinnamon is great for regulating your blood sugar (which makes you feel better) and improves concentration. Considering that America thinks food like Subway is "healthy" and even that can cause a huge insulin spike, I don't see how you can argue against cinnamon. Fish oil has some pretty well-known benefits too, according to others in this thread. I don't know if there is strong scientific evidence backing this up, but I would venture to guess there is. Zinc is vital for men and is not found in an abundant number of foods.

I guess my point is that it's silly to be afraid of taking these things just because there is not hard proof that they work -- everyone is going to have different results. If you keep up with what you eat and know the nutritional value of your food and what you may be lacking at any given time, supplements can help. If you don't think they are benefiting you, stop taking them. But nobody is digging an early grave with natural supplements. We're not talking about growth hormones or happy pills here (at least I'm not).

 

at first glance I thought that was Bill Walton

 

after sifting through this thread, I picked up some Melatonin from the pharmacy. I have taken it over the past couple nights to help get some sleep, and have noticed a considerable uptick in my energy.

Over the past couple years I have had problems waking up multiple times throughout the night and not getting restful REM sleep. My expectation was that this would help remedy the problem, but suprisingly I have still found myself waking up about twice a night.
However, the quality of rest has been definitely been enhanced. I will note my dreams have been more vivid, and can only attribute that to sustained REM sleep.
Thus far I have taken 3mg before bed, and have been happy with the results. The suggested dosage advises anywhere up to 5mg being safe.

just wanted to pass that along