[ESPN] Howard destinations, Houston mentioned as facilitator

I'd do it, too, though I'd love to hang onto Parsons if possible. That said, guys like Chandler aren't deal breakers. People have a way of freaking out when they see four rotation players dealt, even though the winner of NBA trades is almost always the team that gets the best player. Fans are emotional and tend to forget that.

The one thing I can absolutely trust Daryl Morey to get done - and I don't understand anyone who doesn't - is to acquire solid role players with limited resources. Aaron Brooks (later Dragic), Carl Landry, Chandler Parsons, Patrick Patterson, Chase Budinger, Jeremy Lin (would be Rocket if not for Stern veto) - the list goes on and on. These aren't top 10 draft picks, and with one exception, not even top 25 picks. Morey can find diamonds in the rough and turn them into solid rotation players. It's happened time and time again. In the big picture, rotation guys like Dragic and Parsons are extremely replaceable.

 

This trade keeps getting worse all the time.


Stern nixed the NO , LA , Hou three way .... That trade was way more palatable , even if I didnt like the idea of trading for a 31 year old.

Now they want Scola , Martin , Dragic , Parsons and the NY pick. Basically theyare offering Matt Barnes for Dragic, Parsons and that pick. Matt freakin Barnes ?? You must be joking me right ?!

If Morey makes a deal like this , it shows nothing but desperation on the part of the Rockets front office.

Put the crack pipe down and step away from the trade button Morey.

 

Thats usually the case ....But not only are the Rockets NOT getting the best player in the deal , they are helping a conference rival land that "best player in the trade" while paying a premium for a 31 year old on the decline.

No no no .... hell no.

 

I agree with everything you said...

if we were to trade EVERY player on the active roster we would still have DMo, Llull, Marcussoris and Greg Smith ready to contribute next year...

 

I would do the deal, too. I'd rather do the original deal than giving up Parsons for a late 1st, but all those draft picks count. If we have a decent core and also have DM getting us gems out of the draft, we are looking very good for a long time.

 

For starters, I don't see any evidence that Gasol is declining. I think this is one of those things that people say because they want it to be true, but have no real basis for it.

I look at it as us getting the best player because we're getting a better player (by far) than any we give up. That's how the trade impacts the Rockets. I think there are too many variables involved to worry much about the third team and how it impacts them. I mean, it's a valid perspective, but I think the first and foremost concern should be the product here.

 

this thread has moved away from the (ridiculous) Gasol offer...

the Cat was discussing a trade for Howard

 

ah CRAP...fail on my part. apparently I need to work on my reading retention...

 

Howard to LA / Gasol to Houston
D-Will to Houston


After these trades, our lineup:
DWill/Flynn
Lee/Budinger
Barnes/Parsons/Morris/TWill
Gasol/Hill
Dalembert/Smith/Thabeet

then after the Offseason:
DWill/Llull
Lee/Bud
Barnes/Parsons/Morris
Gasol/Motiejunas
Dalembert/Smith

FA and Rooks also available.

Here's the Salary for 12/13:
Gasol $19M
Williams $17,779,458-P
Dalembert $6,698,656-N
Lee Q-$3,221,934
Morris $1,905,360
Motiejunas $1,365,720 (approx)
Parsons $888,250
Budinger $885,120-T
Smith $762,195-N
Llull $3M-$4M

Grand Total: $55,506,693 (not bad, AND under the Salary Cap I believe)

 

I would do the deal. We wouldn't be giving up our draft picks, which would mean we have three 1st round draft picks. I hate to lose Scola, but it's a delayed gratification thing.

 

Can anyone honestly say the Lakers will be better than they are now? I mean they're giving up Gasol AND Bynum. At best its a lateral move. Is anyone dismissing the fact that our front court defense will be vastly improved? Also, we may actually be able to make some noise in the playoffs with Gasol as opposed without.

 

technically, if we make the playoffs that would deduct one 1st rounder...

 

There is basis for peoplesaying Gasol is in decline. The numbers dont lie.

FG% is down this year from his career numbers as well as theprevious two seasons.

Career .522 , 09-10 .536 , 10-11 .529 ,11-12 .507

Scoring is also down.

Career 18.7ppg , 09-10 18.3ppg , 10-11 18.8ppg , 11-12 16.7ppg

Blocks are down

Career 1.7bpg , 09-10 1.7bpg , 10-11 1.6bpg , 11-12 1.2bpg

The guy is 31 .... and while his numbers are still good , they are on the decline the window of opportunity with him is closing fast.

Add to the above ,Houston isnt where he wants to be .... I'd rather not have an aging disgruntled "star" making $57m over three years on this roster.

Either you are getting the best player or you arent - Its quite obvious the Lakers get the best player in the deal .... It could be argued that Gasol is the 3rd best player in this deal behind both Howard and Bynum.


Not only that - Helping the Lakers get better when you have a record equal to theirs is like shooting yourself in the foot. Both teams are 16-12. This deal makes the Lakers significantly better lowering your chances of not only reaching the playoffs .... but you have to consider the possibility of facing them in the playoffs. Its not out of the realm of possibility the two teams finish 4 & 5 in the West.


In this deal , sending Scola, Martin , Parsons , Dragic and the NY#1 out , you significantly weaken the depth of this team - the very factor that has them in the playoff hunt.

Im not against moving any of those players pending it makes the team significantly better and doesnt mortgage the future for an aging player on the decline.

 

two years is a trend. 30 games is not. the triangle offense is much different than what Mike Brown is running. The Lakers do not look like themselves. they are still adjusting to the new system. They are trying to find ways to get Pau more involved. Word is, he's frustrated. I do not think you have sufficient evidence to say that Pau is declining.

 

Everyone in this trade benefits significantly, except us.

Giving up Scola and Martin I am okay with. Scola is aging and as much as he wants to hustle, his body can't move like it could at 29.

Martin can not play a lick of D and does not drive to the basket enough. I love him as a second go-to guy, but not as the number one option. Imagine how well he would play with Yao. Inside outside game would rock. We need that kind of center for a guy like Martin.

 

Pau is frustrated because Kobe is jacking and lowering his and Bynum's value so Mitch will be willing to move both of them for Dwight.

 

Would he be any less frustrated playing for a team he doesnt want to be on ?


Two years is a trend ?

FG% is down two consecutive years

Blocks down two consecutive years.

I'd call 30 games , nearly 40% of a normal season a solid sample size to say his scoring is down .... in consecutive seasons too.


For the record , Im OK with Scola and Martin for Gasol. However , Im not OK with Scola , Martin , Parsons , Dragic and the NY #1 for Gasol. The price skyrocketed from the original trade Stern nixed to this outlandish mess.

 

I noticed you left out rebounds, which are up. I guess those numbers lie?

The fact of the matter is that most of the changes in Gasol's productivity are minimal and nothing you can draw a trend from, either way. The points are slightly down, but so are his shot attempts (slightly). Plus, his points actually increased in 2010-11 from the year before. You need at least a year, and probably two, to have a trend - not 30 games with a new coach and system. In fact, in Gasol's last full year, his PER actually rose from the prior season.

Blocks are the only category where there is a clear decline, but that's to be expected. As Bynum has emerged into a full-time starter (no injuries this year, career-high 35 minutes per game), that means Gasol is spending more time at PF than ever before... which takes him further away from the basket since Bynum is the primary shot-blocking presence.

I don't think it's worth building your team around what-ifs that may or may not come to fruition with your competition. Are you getting a better player than any you are sending out? That's the primary factor.

Or, you're using the very factor that's easiest Morey to find (and thus replace) - young, cheap rotation players - to acquire the one thing we don't have - a true impact player. I trust Morey to find plenty more Parsons, Dragic and mid-first round types. The opportunity to acquire a star is much more rare.

Still don't see evidence of Gasol on the decline. Technically, any player is aging, by the way.

 

Pau Gasol

2009-10 18.3 ppg
2010-11 18.8 ppg
2011-12 16.7 ppg


2009-10 11.3 rpg
2010-11 10.2 rpg
2011-12 10.5 rpg


2009-10 1.7 bpg
2010-11 1.6 bpg
2011-12 1.3 bpg

2009-10 53.6% FG
2010-11 52.9% FG
2011-12 50.7% FG

2009-10 1.41 pps
2010-11 1.38 pps
2011-12 1.23 pps

I personally feel comfortable saying that he's already peaked as a player, and I've found that a very bad postseason can often be serious foreshadowing. He's still good as a secondary player...but he's absolutely overpaid at $19M and that's only going to get worse.

 

Those declines are miniscule and are coming in the context of a completely new coach and system.