Didnt read the thread, so forgive me if I dont reall contribute. Just wanna be heard lol. I say go for it. Dragic and Scola for Amare? Yes sir. Like said plenty of times, Dragic is probably NOT going to come back to the rockets this off season. So essentially it will be a straight Amare/Scola swap for us. NY would do it cause Scola isnt too bad, they get their 1st rounder back & they finally get a good point guard since bdiddy is still out.
Now you're talking! With Amare we are assuming a huge contractual risk. Do the NBA trading rules allow for contingent trade aspects like the NFL does, i.e. if he plays 80% of the games some kind of kicker is thrown in... I still want to keep their pick though.
Scola is an asset who can be used to pick up other players. He's also about as good as Stoudemire right now. I don't see a good reason to trade for Amare unless Scola goes out as part of a different deal and we need a new starting PF to replace him. In which case you tell the Knicks "give him to us for only expiring contracts or enjoy the rest of that terrible deal you gave him".
Here's an interesting article regarding Amare's declining game/athleticism. Count me out. http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=7509657&wjb= Let's start with this right off the bat: David Lee, Al Harrington and Anthony Randolph each have better player efficiency ratings than the Knicks' $100 million man, Amare Stoudemire, this season. Yes, Anthony Randolph (15.9 PER) has been more productive with his minutes than Stoudemire (15.7 PER). The sobering reality in New York is that in just a year's time, Stoudemire has gone from MVP candidate to a league-average player, at least statistically. So we have to ask: What happened to Amare Stoudemire? The 7-11 Knicks are reeling and there are a number of reasons for their disappointing start, but right at the top of the list is the sudden decline of their big catch in the summer of 2010 sweepstakes. In his second campaign in a Knicks uniform, Stoudemire is averaging 17.8 points, 8.4 rebounds -- fantastic numbers for an NBA player, but not one who is due $83 million, or an average of $20.8 million annually, through 2015-16. And a deeper look into Stoudemire's stat line explains why his production has fallen off a cliff: He can't hit a shot. With a quarter of the season in the books, the 29-year-old power forward has shot 42.6 percent from the floor. How bad is that? Consider this: Over the past 40 years, it's only happened three times that someone at his height or taller (6-foot-10) shot this often (15 shots per game) and this badly (42.6 percent). And the three players who achieved the sorry feat (Clifford Robinson, Derrick Coleman and Toni Kukoc) each shot at least 120 3-pointers in those seasons. Nearly all of Stoudemire's shots have come from inside the arc. In other words, a traditional big man has never shot this much and this badly in about half a century. You'd have to dial it back to Nate Thurmond in the mid-60s to find a precedent. So why haven't his shots gone in? This is the scary part. When we put the magnifying glass on Stoudemire's shot selection, you'll notice two things: One, he has been brutal outside the immediate basket area and two, when he does get into the basket area, he's getting blocked at an excessive rate. Let's start with the stuffed shots, which is alarming coming from a guy who used to make a living by dunking on mere mortals. Only Derrick Rose got blocked more times than Stoudemire last season according to Hoopdata.com, but this season Stoudemire's blocked rate has only increased -- drastically. On the season, Stoudemire has been blocked on 10.2 percent of his shots, which is up from 8.1 percent last season. The average power forward gets swatted on 7.1 percent of his shots. It has been difficult to watch Stoudemire's struggles this season. In a Jan. 18 loss to the Phoenix Suns, he missed 15 of his 22 shots from the floor, turned the ball over six times and got blocked another four times. In Wednesday's loss to the Cavaliers, Stoudemire got blocked twice by Anderson Varejao, once while Varejao stood straight up with his hands in the air in order to not draw a foul. Stoudemire tried to make a floater, but couldn't get enough lift to rise above Varejao's outstretched hands. Varejao blocked his shot without even jumping. But the swats are just the tip of the iceberg. When looking at indicators of lost athleticism, you can't help wondering if something's up. Stoudemire's and-one rate (percentage of shots called for an and-one) has dropped precipitously from 6.5 percent in 2009-10, to 4.9 percent last season, to 3.3 percent this season. He has tallied one and-one over his past eight games; in his last season in Phoenix, he muscled for one every game on average. It's always a troubling sign when the blocked rate and and-one rate go in opposite directions. The defensive indicators are also stunning. His block rate has vanished almost completely, dropping from 3.8 percent last season to a career-low 1.1 percent this season. Subjectively, one could say that he's lost the majority of his lift -- whether that's due to age, a residual ankle soreness or something else, but we can't know for sure. Objectively looking at the numbers, the red flags are everywhere. And that jump shot? The news gets worse. Synergy Sports tracking tells us that 101 of Stoudemire's 244 field goals are jump shots. Of the 66 players with at least 100 jump shots this season, only Tyreke Evans and DeMar DeRozan have a lower effective field goal percentage (which accounts for the added value of a 3-pointer) than Stoudemire's 32.7 percent rate. If Stoudemire was compensating for his eroding athleticism by migrating to the perimeter, that would be one thing, but the Knicks simply can't survive with these abysmal results. As my Insider colleague Bradford Doolittle pointed out, Stoudemire's game has changed dramatically this season -- and it's not for the better. Much of Stoudemire's immense value is generated from the pick-and-roll game, where his dynamic athleticism can be leveraged by a crafty point guard. The only problem is that the Knicks don't have one. His offense resulting from the pick-and-roll has dwindled from 9.9 percent last season to 4.8 percent this season. Amazingly, just 14 of Stoudemire's 284 points have directly resulted from a pick-and-roll catch on the move. In his heyday with Steve Nash, he could tally 14 points off the pick-and-roll by halftime. The Knicks' offense has been a disaster thus far without a legitimate playmaker. Carmelo Anthony is suffering through a down shooting season as well, but he doesn't rely on the competence of his point guard quite like Stoudemire does. Stoudemire has resorted to being an isolation machine with Tyson Chandler parked under the basket and rookie Iman Shumpert hijacking the offense whenever he pleases. And we haven't even talked much about his embarrassing defense, but he's consistently ranked as one of the league's most skewed one-way players. What happens when he can't produce offensively anymore? Even though there are more than 45 games left, it's hard to imagine a worse start for Stoudemire unless he sustained a serious injury. Speaking of injuries, it's worth noting that many people around the league considered it a medical miracle that Stoudemire was able to play as well as he did last season given the state of his knees. It is simply very unlikely that he will ever be able to regain the athleticism he had in Phoenix, much less be a star player going forward. With his shooting woes reaching historic depths and more than $80 million remaining on his contract, the time for Knicks fans to panic about Stoudemire is right about now
High risk. Don't see him warranting his contract in a few years with the health issues he has had. And $20+ million sitting on the bench in a suit is not something I'd want to deal with again. Other players are targets way before him.
This is what I've been arguing for the entire time! Don't trade for him! It's not the max contract you would have to pay him for 4 years!
I honestly cant believe that Amare went from the MVP caliber player from last season pre-melo to an extremely overpaid player. I just dont see it. Amare was playing FANTASTIC with the Knicks last season. It's just impossible for me to think he just went from that to.. trash. Lowry CAN and WILL make Amare that player again if we do make a run for Amare. Lowry and Amare is a bad ass duo. Lowry and Amare will be fun to watch. Lowry and Amare will bring fans to the stadium for once. Amare will set forth a "win-now" mood. ugh, im getting mad typing this because I just dont see us getting him for Scola, Dragic and a 1st rounder. Seems like it's high way robbery for both teams. This trade just seems TOO good for both teams.
STAT is a player that utilized his superior athleticism to dominate over everyone. Now that it's starting to deteriorate, he can't adjust to it. He doesn't drive to basket as much because he gets blocked more often now. He just settles for contested 17ft jumpers that he can't hit. Maybe he turns it around a bit this season. It possible, but his bad knees and back are going to be a huge question mark in a year or two for a guy getting the max. Pass on STAT.
Come on....are u telling me that someone on this board really thinks that 1st rd. pick is going to get moved? Please.... With a draft like this coming up and now someone thinks we should move OUT of it? With a potential cornerstone lurking but instead we would elect to move OUT of it to get a $20 mill. player for 4-5 more years? Giving a Dragic who is a FANTASTIC PG is one thing (Paying him...) but, along with Scola, we give a TOP pick in a DEEP DRAFT!!??? So we should PASS on this draft for Amare based on the 'possibility' and HOPE, that despite everything that's reported... the medical reports are wrong, that his defense will reappear, that his shooting will get better, that his energy will increase, that his attitude will change for the positive, that ALL OF His STATS will TOTALLY REVERSE themselves....? Really? All this for a guy who MUST HAVE the pick and roll to be marginally effective...but we want to give him Scola, a young dynamic DEFENSIVE SMART PG........AND............a HIGH PICK in the deepest draft in years! really?
This trade would win the division. Do it in a Heartbeat. Edit - sorry doc but the random amare-hating doesn't add up. When you have NBA level pgs to get him the ball he is dominant offensive player. And you're worried about losing a journeyman like dragic - really?
Gasol is a snob mofo that doesn't want to play anywhere other than under Kobe's nutsack and live the LA dream.
It would get moved for the right player, but the right player would have to be veeeeeery good indeed, and Amar'e Stoudemire isn't him. Don't know who it would be; chances are Morey will sit on the pick, but he's surprised before.
Describes half the league. Gasol just happens to be living the dream. If he were traded, he'd deal with it just fine.
I'm not worried about Dragic leaving (especially when Llull's coming over). But this article sums up why people don't want STAT http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=7509657&wjb=
It's going to be a sad day when Stern screws this team over again by magically making that Knicks pick a top 5 one.
Couldn't agree more, Doc, and you don't have to be an Insider to draw that conclusion. aelliott's post below spells it out pretty clearly. Morey would be nuts to deal for Stoudemire. I just don't think he's that crazy, and I don't see the metrics to somehow morph what would be gross stupidity into a brilliant move. It just ain't there, folks. Other teams are possibly good trading partners for the Rocks, including the Stern shafted Lakers. The Knicks? Let them stew in their own juices. They created their mess, and we certainly don't need to be the chumps to bail them out.
