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Are they getting the message?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Will, Dec 4, 2002.

  1. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    First of all, I'm in agony that I didn't see this game. But because I didn't, I don't know the answer to a couple of questions I've been noodling. What I've read in several posts here about Moochie and Eddie gives me hope that the answer to these questions may be yes.

    The big turning point in the championship Rockets years was when Rudy realized/decided that everything would have to revolve around Hakeem. Lately, Rudy has said he's been trying to figure out who this team is.

    1. From what you saw last night, do you see signs that Rudy believes he now knows who this team is, i.e., that everything must revolve around Yao? I'm not asking about your belief or mine. I'm asking about your impression of Rudy's belief.

    2. Do you see signs that other Rockets players are getting, accepting, and responding to the message or realization that they must change their games to revolve around Yao?
     
  2. AT

    AT Member

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    From today's Chron:

    When the game was on the line, Duncan made just one of his last five shots and could not take over. Yao did.

    "He's competitive," Tomjanovich said. "He goes after the ball. He plays hard, and he's skilled. Rebounding, passing, shooting, and his offensive rebounding (were) tremendous."

    As much as he had Tomjanovich looking forward to playing the Spurs again, Yao also had the coach thinking about his next practice.

    "We need to fine-tune to get the ball inside," Tomjanovich said. "We're going to put in a couple new plays and angles to get the ball inside."

    He didn't have to say who would be there to catch it.
     
  3. Dallas Rocket

    Dallas Rocket Member

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    Will,

    The message seems to have been received, at least by some. It was when we ignored Yao on offense that Spurs got back into game. Francis, too much dribbling and TO's, plus reverting to ISO's. Plus our defense has improved immeasureably.

    This was a sentinal win for Yao and the Rockets on many different levels.

    Dallas Rocket
     
  4. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    Yes, I see signs of it. I have even noticed Rudy giving the instruction from the sideline to give the ball to Yao. And the fact that they did it so much yesterday against one of the best frontcourts in the league gives a little insight into how much confidence the Rockets are starting to show in Yao.

    Yes, there was one play in particular that made me think this. Steve was bringing the ball to the right wing, where Yao was fighting for position. Steve got held up for a moment, and Ming started to take a step across the lane thinking Steve wanted an isolation play. But you could hear Steve yell "Yao!" and he motioned for him to stay there. Yao got the position back and Steve threw the ball into him.

    Not exactly proof that everything has changed, but I thought it was certainly a good sign.
     
    #4 DCkid, Dec 4, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2002
  5. O-dawg

    O-dawg Member
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    1. Over past 4 or 5 cames I think Rudy has gotten an idea not so much of who this team is currently, but who he wants this team to be. Last nights game definitely showed more of a commitment from Rudy (and the players for that matter) to get the ball in Yao's hands early. This is key. Setting up the post presence earlier opens up so many more areas of the game. Last night it looked liked the whole team was looking not only to get the ball in Yao's hands early, but also looked for Maurice in the post early as well. I can not tell you how dangerous this team will be working inside out first, instead of putting so much pressure on the backcourt. Let our post threats (mostly Yao) get going and then when the defense adjusts then start hitting cutters from double teams and looking for the open weak side... Rudy see's this and appears to be slowly working in more wrinkles to capitilize on this.

    2. This is the Steve Francis-Yao Ming show and last night was evidence of that (IMHO). These two appeared to feed off of each others games. There was the time that Steve dumped to Yao and cut to the weak side and was then rewarded by Mooch (when the defense collasped on Yao) with an uncontested three. There was Yao getting excellent position for off. rebounds when Steve drove and missed, one of which he stuffed home with a vengeance, and the other he made the bucket and was fouled. Steve getting an excellent pick and hand-off from Yao, Yao killing with the "j" over the top of the defense... I tell you the sky is the limit for these two and I think the players have felt this, but are finally starting to see it in action (against a quality team I might add). How can you not get behind that.
     
    #5 O-dawg, Dec 4, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2002
  6. Possum

    Possum Member

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    Yes I believe it is obvious to all that good things happen when the offense is run through Ming. Once they realize were Ming’s sweet spots are and design plays to get him the ball he'll be unstoppable. The only shots he missed that I can recall are when he received the ball about five feet to far out of the low post. This allowed the defense to front him and turn him into a jump shooter. Anytime he received the ball within a foot of the paint he was deadly. I would go so far as to say he is as dominant as Shaq when given the ball in the paint.

    It’s too bad you missed this game because I believe it was a big step in the evolution of this Rockets team.
     
  7. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

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    i've taped the game,and i'm gonna watch it this weekend,(first i need to get to my parents home).then i will be able to anwser your questions.

    like i said i didn't see the game,but if this is true than i'm really excited.If Francis and Ming can find each other on the court we will be a great team.they both can pas,and score.i see a great 1-2 punch
     
  8. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    Yeah, maybe someone can back me up on this one. I'm pretty sure it was in the 1st half. But, that was only one play, there were still a couple of times Steve went into isolation mode.
     
  9. wrath_of_khan

    wrath_of_khan Member

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    O-dawg (I just like saying that) nailed it on the head. The thing about last night's game was that we went to Yao early and often. I think he had nine points in the first quarter, and he could have had more if he hadn't missed a couple turnaround jumpers that he usually hits. At one point in the first quarter, I found myself wishing Rudy would mix it up a bit and quit going to Yao on every play! Kind of a bizarre concept considering how few shots he'd gotten lately.

    But the importance of the steady diet of Yao post plays in the first quarter cannot be ignored -- it means that it was part of the game plan. Even in the Laker and Dallas break out games, I thought many of Yao's points came in the flow of the game as opposed to a change in game plan.

    In fact, there were times that I thought the newfound focus of the offense was worrisome. I saw way too many plays where someone dumped it in to Yao and then moved over to the weak side to join 3 other teammates in standing around while Yao made his move. I understand the need to iso Yao from time to time, but on each of these plays Yao was left with only one option -- shooting. I'd like to see more plays with off-the-ball movement to take advantage of Yao's passing and less of the "four guys standing on the weak side" variety.

    Will, the change was also noticable apart from the game plan. Little things like Mo T getting the ball near his favorite position on one side of the lane, turning to face the basket, and, instead of trying to take his man off the dribble, feeding Yao in the post on the other side of the lane with a bounce pass. Or Moochie bringing the ball up in the middle, directing Stevie to Yao's side where Yao's posting up, and then giving the ball to Stevie and getting out of the way so Stevie and Yao can play the two man game.

    Little things, but important ones.
     
  10. Bogey

    Bogey Member

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    I think the team is still learning to play together. The best lineup I saw last night was with Moochie, Franchise, TMo, Eddie, and Yao. Boy were they fun to watch both offensively and defensivley, meshed really well. Thats saying a lot for me since I'm not normally a big Moochie or Morris fan.
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    The bottom line or end of this transition is that Steve Francis will have to defer to Yao Ming.

    Steve is a Super Star caliber player, but Yao is a MEGA Star caliber player.

    There can be 2 players, but only one true leader, and that leader will be Yao Ming, although maybe not in a vocal way.

    More of a Hakeem Olajuwon sort of way....you know...

    Humble & Hungry.

    DaDakota
     
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Just as Kobe learned to defer to Shaq and thus propel them to championships, Francis will learn to defer to Ming before they reach their goal.

    Chris
     
  13. O-dawg

    O-dawg Member
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    Honestly D-Rock, the only time I saw Steve pounding the ball was a stretch in the 3rd quarter when Yao went to the bench and we had a line up of Norris, Francis, TMo, KT, and Cato. With that line up, who would you rather have taking the shots. I'm going with Francis, I liken it to how Kobe is more assertive when Shaq is on the bench. Franchis moved the ball well in this game IMO, and seemed to let flow, taking what the D gave him.
     
  14. O-dawg

    O-dawg Member
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    OK DaDa... here you go again with star, super star, (and now) mega star stuff. They will both be stars in this league for many years to come. Period. Just as Shaq and Kobe are both stars, the only difference is that having a post presence makes winning infinitely easier in this league and now we have a stellar big man (and low post threat) to take the pressure off of our stellar back court. One helps the other, Yao's transition into a force will be made alot easier by the fact that he does not have to carry the team and is not looked upon to bear the bulk of the scoring (its ok if he does, but it's nice that he doesn't have to). One w/o the other is not enough to be a contender and we have both, stop trying to make one less important than the other and enjoy the fact that we have both...

    damn D, and I was just beginning to agree with you more than disagree, now you've thrown the percentages off. ;)
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    O-Dawg,

    I concur that they will both be stars, what I meant to say was that Yao will be the number 1 option, and Steve will be number 2.

    Both are EXCELLENT players and we are lucky to have them.

    However, anyone shooting 60% gets more shots then someone shooting 45%.

    :)

    DaDakota
     
  16. O-dawg

    O-dawg Member
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    I could argue the shooting percentages point of view, but why bother. We agree that they are both excellent players (forget the degrees, i.e. superstar, megastar) and I could care less who is the 1st or 2nd option, as long as they are both utilized to their full potential.
     
  17. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    Thanks for the observations and thoughts. Here's another item: I just came across this quote in the NBA.com story. I think it answers Question #1 pretty succinctly.

    "We have a direction now, we have a versatile inside presence," said Rockets coach Rudy Tomjanovich . . .
     
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    You said it best, Will. Rudy was the coach of Hakeem's team. He knows that offense all too well.

    1. Noting many things Rudy said during the summer, and after watching the video of Yao's 3rd practice with us when Rudy had them practicing entry passes to Yao...over and over. I think Rudy always knew how to use Yao, and always planned for it. I do think he was conservative on picking the time when Yao was ready as well as the tema. I also think heis trying to do more than just 100% revolve around Yao, though, like we did with Hakeem. Francis has a much different role than Kenny Smith or Sam Cassell did.

    remember Francis did say, "I've never been able to play with a guy (center) like that." Which I always took to mean that Francis hasn't played well in any offense like that before.

    2. well, I saw Francis wave off a pick from Yao once to direct him to the low post for a pass. How about that?

    btw: Yao does just flat out look more aggressive on taking his shot, so some of this is him becoming a leader, too, and being more crisp in getting into the offense, and more aggressive on defense...most aggressive we've seen him, yet.
     
    #18 heypartner, Dec 4, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2002
  19. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

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    Good point, it should also be noted that since Yao is getting the ball early, it means Kenny isn't going to throw up his 2 quick bricks at the beginning of the game like he usually does. Too bad it took Rudy about 10 games to figure this out...but hey, better late then never. :D
     
  20. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    I know a lot of us complained about Yao not playing enough early on, but can anyone argue that Rudy was wrong in bringing Ming along slowly. I think the gradual increase in playing time has been almost perfect. Let's face it, Yao didn't look good early on. Rudy let him get a feel for the speed of the game without smashing his confidence by playing him too long. He just slowly brought him along until Yao "Broke Out!"

    Contray to popular belief, Rudy knows what he's doing.
     
    #20 DCkid, Dec 4, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2002

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