By state college I think he means Penn State and Larry Johnson. The same Larry Johnson that's run for under 100 yards in his teams biggest games -- Ohio State, Iowa, and Michigan. (all losses) My Heisman vote would go to McGahee too. There are certain season defining plays or moments that win you the Heisman, and he definitely had them-- I just think people were too focused on Dorsey winning the Heisman to notice. Against FSU, down 27-21 with 5 minutes left, he turned that simple little screen pass into a 70 yard gain to get it down to the FSU 10. Against Pitt, down 14-7 right before the half, he made a couple of great moves to get a 69 yard TD to tie and totally change the game. You nailed it with that last month... whenever Miami has been in trouble, McGahee has stepped up and made a big play. It's for that reason he should win the Heisman, but you know he won't. Grossman had a significantly better season than Crouch last year, but being a sophomore did him in... all about that mythical "senior leadership". McGahee would be a great second round pick.
macghee wasn't even the best back on the field that day; greg jones was, running against a much better defense. johnson has rushed for over 2,000 yards against teams that knew, without any question, he was penn state's lone threat on offense. taking nothing away from macghee's skills, but he didn't have to perform under those circumstances: he has a top 5 college QB and a stable of fast, dangerous receivers, making it nearly impossible for opposing defense to properly gameplan a way to shut down various aspects of miami's game. i have no idea what johnson will do in the pros, but he's been unbelievable this year; i mean, he was on pace to rush for 500 yards saturday! imo, he's a no-brainer; 2K yard seasons don't grow on trees.
Miami's run defense is very, very suspect. Also, the argument goes both ways. Because Johnson's the lone threat, he gets a lot more touches than McGahee. I admit that defenses had to focus on Miami's passing game too, but most NFL teams are two-dimensional. I'm pretty sure whoever we get at running back will take a back seat to Carr and the passing game, so it's a similar situation. He's had a terrific, terrific season, but I just don't think it's worthy of the Heisman. The Big 10 is very weak this year compared to its normal standard, and in his three big games he couldn't get to 100. I know his numbers are great in any league, but most Heisman winners have that one defining moment in a big game where they take it over. Johnson, despite his outstanding numbers, has had his chances, and didn't take advantage.
in 12 games, johnson had 251 rushes; mcghee rushed 209 times in 10 games. both average out to roughly 20 and change a game, so they're nearly dead even. huh? what does this have to do with the heisman? dorsey, johnson, et al, make mcgahee's job easier. in fact, teams gear up to stop miami's passing attack, not their rushing attack. that's reflected in what an off-year dorsey's had (not the only factor, but a factor nonetheless). and i don't care if miami's run defense is suspect, it's better than florida state's and features at least two first-round draft picks and several more first day selections, and greg jones shredded it. he was the best back on the field that day, no question, and that nearly negates any "definitive" moments mcgahee might've had that day. in a weak year, he's andre ware -- numbers simply too big to ignore. for me, it comes down to this: switch places -- does LJ rush for 1300 yards as a hurricane? well, if he's rushing for 2000 as a nittany lion... i think that's a highly likely sceanrio. does mcgahee rush for 2000 yards as a nittany lion? debateable.
The comment I made about comparing Dorsey's impact on the college game to Carr's to the NFL was to talk about why McGahee could be a good fit on the Texans, not the Heisman. For the record, Florida State's run defense is 42nd in the country... Miami's 74th. It's pretty weak. Jones was good, but even seldom used backup Nick Maddox rushed 12 times for 76 yards. Calling the Miami run defense average might be a stretch. If these remarkable numbers outweigh definitive moments, is Kliff Kingsbury on your list? Just curious, cause you can't really ignore those numbers either... they are huge. Probably as impressive statistically as Johnson. If they switch scenarios, you have a point, but given their respective scenarios this season I think they both did as well as they could. However, when his team needed him the most, McGahee made a ton of big plays in big games, and that's why I think he's a Heisman winner.
LJ just set the record for yards per attempt [8.2 I think]. Has Kingsbury set any new record of that magnitude? If I may do my The Cat imitation,and list some excuses,or at least some reasons for his "bad" games.in the Iowa game PSU fell behind by 20+ pts and pretty much had to give up on running the ball. In the Michigan game,I've read that he had a hamstring problem,and was lucky to play. I'll give OSU credit for shutting him down,but he still averaged 4+ yards a carry in those games,so,if given the carries,he would have had decent games. I'd also like to dispel the theory put forth that LJ was a one man team. Zach Mills is a Semi Finalist for the Davey O'Brien Award and I'm pretty sure I speak for the vast majority of PennState fans when I say we'd take Mills over Simms anytime!! Bryant Johnson is an exellent WR and will be a pretty high draft pick.Having said all this,LJ is clearly the best player on PennState this season,and deserves to win the Heisman.
not that it's really relevant to the johnson/mcgahee debate, but... kingsbury's a fringe candidate, imo. his numbers are not singularly impressive and he certainly didn't reach an impressive milestone like the 2,000 yard plateau. (only 8 other runners in the entire history of college football have hit 2,000 yards in a season and five of them won heismans.) back to kingsbury's candidacy -- for comparison's sake, carr threw for more yards and more touchdowns last year despite 140 fewer attempts, and he wasn't invited to NY (though he should have been). in fact, if you average out carr's output from last year, and apply it to kingsbury's attempts differential (669), look at the results: carr 432/669, 6,073, 56/11 kinsbury 447/669, 4,642, 42/12 there's simply no comparison -- kingsbury had a (low-end of the scale) great year. more importantly, QB's are held to a different standard than other positions, as more weight is given to their team's W-L record. case in point, again, carr wasn't a finalist last year despite better numbers than finalist joey harrington and winner eric crouch. kingsbury's loss to OU killed his chances -- he won't get an invite... or, might, 'cause it's a weak year, but has no chance.
According to Kipper he values Joseph at around 9th so the Texans should be able to trade down to get him which is something that Casserly wants to do.
well, trading down is easier said than done, unless you have the top pick, which, i don't think they will (somewhere in the 2-11 range is where they'll fall). also, i doubt casserly has made any decision about what he'd like to do on draft day considering the college football season hasn't even ended yet, not to mention he doesn't know where he'll be drafting and has yet to attend a combine. also, kiper's board is seniors only, iirc.
Ric, I agree with your statement regarding Miami's offense. Miami's overall offensive talent level is superior to PennState's. I just did'nt want people to think Larry Johnson played with an offense like the Cowboys.
My apologies; I didn't know about the injury, or the lack of attempts against Iowa. Those things aren't excuses, no matter what people say... they're facts. Didn't know about them.
The Cat, No problem. I've noticed the "experts" on ESPN and other places conveniently forget about the Iowa game in particular. The thing that irks me about this Heisman race is that I wonder if the same people that harp on LJ putting up monster stats against "inferior" teams raised a fuss about stats put up by,I don't know,maybe a Ty Detmer or an Andre Ware? I think the Big 10 is,for the most part,a better conference than the ones Ware and Detmer played in.
It's funny you mention the Florida State game as reason to not vote for McGahee. I see it just opposite. McGahee's worst performance was against Florida State and in that WIN, he rumbled for 95 yards and a touchdown and set up the late score finishing with three catches for 78 yards. It was a game where his team fell behind early and were in catch up mode. Behind late in the game they throw a screen to McGahee and he turns it into a big play and sets his team up for the go ahead score. That’s what the Hiesman is about IMO. The player on the best team that comes through when it’s needed the most. The player most responsible for his team’s success. Now about Larry Johnson. No matter how bad the competition might be, if you crack over eight yards per carry and rumble like he's been, you're getting it done. Why shouldn't he win the Hiesman? How about 68 yards and 3.8 yards per carry in the loss to Iowa. Ok he got hurt in the Iowa game so how about 78 yards and 4.6 yards per carry in the loss to Michigan? Or even his 66 yards and 4.1 yards per carry in the loss to Ohio State. I know you’re going to say LJ did have 93 receiving yards and two TDs against Iowa. He had five catches for 46 yards against Michigan and six catches for 32 yards against Ohio State. Yes but did he do anything to give his team the opportunity to win any of these games. McGahee hasn't had a dud yet and has had several of these "definitive" moments that you so easily dismiss. I don't understand the TALENT angle either. Like the saying goes, that’s why they play the game! It doesn't matter who has the most talent on paper. You see it all the time in college. Some team that shouldn’t have a chance is hanging in and playing the better team way tougher than they should be. The Florida State game was a big hyped up meeting between 2 of the best teams of the last 7 or 8 years and was nationally televised. I would say that is the kind of game you can throw out the paper. Another thing and really I mean . I'm not saying you’re wrong. I'm just pointing out how I see it differently. I guess it really just comes down to each individual’s opinion of what it takes to win the Hiesman. So I have a question for you. In a big game against two good teams with two good RB's, who do you give player of the game to out of the two? Running back A runs for 189 yards, one TD, 0 catches and his team loses. Running back B runs for 95 yards, one TD, 3 catches for 78 yards for a total of 173 yards and are you ready for this.........hs a "definitive" moment that helps his team win. I'm having a real hard time seeing it from your point of view. There's no way RB A deserves more credit than RB B IMHO.
possum, my main bone of contention is that you're focusing too intently on the parts while ignoring the whole. sure, mcgahee's had some indivually great games against worthy opponents. but, WADR, so have a lot of other backs. quentin griffin had a singularly definitive performance in a key game (248 against texas, not to mention 207 against tech with the big 12 on the line) and has more rushing yards than mcgahee. using your criteria, shouldn't he be your choice? heisman voters won't sweat the details, not with a RB. they would with a QB (which is why kingsbury is done), but a RB is a different animal. if you're going to vote for a RB other than the one with 2,000 yards, there better be some definitive, no doubt about it reason. and, frankly, a game or two isn't going to cut it. LJ may or may not win it, but he'll get more votes than mcgahee, and that's not meant to dismiss the impact mcgahee's had. and if i'm wrong (i could be, no question), then it'll be a case of too many not seeing the forest for the trees. btw, real quick, talent is an issue and miami's abundance hurts mcgahee's chances further, imo. answer me this: would you dare stack 8 in the box to stop him? of course not, 'cause dorsey, johnson, winslow, et al, would bury you. conversely, i doubt teams would hesitate making LJ their defensive focus, daring mills to beat them. that's a big, big difference. i don't think there's any question LJ could match mcgahee's numbers if he were a hurricane; but i'm not so sure mcgahee could match LJ's if he were a nittany lion.
