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Kevin Martin ... What am I missing?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JMAD21, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    Tyreke Evans? DeMar DeRozan? Yeah, you're not a fan.
     
  2. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    Look, Martin surrounded by good defenders is ideal for him.
     
  3. sealclubber1016

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    Doesn't create for others.

    Doesn't command a double team.

    Doesn't play good man defense.

    Doesn't play help defense.

    Doesn't create turnovers.

    Doesn't score late when refs swallow the whistle.

    There's a whole list of things he doesn't do. He is a decent player, but most of his offense is negated by his abysmal defense.

    His offense isn't as good as his PPG and efficency would suggest. He scores, but he never faces double teams, and struggles to score in crunch time.

    He's a net positive and a good player, but he's paid like a star, and gets stars minutes. He is best suited as a 25-30 min bench player on a good team.
     
  4. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Because he isn't an overly exciting player, and plays for the Rockets. If he played for the Lakers, Celtics, or Knicks he would get a lot more attention. If he dominated the ball and dunked more often, he would get a lot more attention.
     
  5. cheifbootknocka

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    The "Mike Bibby" of shooting guards?
     
  6. dharocks

    dharocks Member

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    I realize the whole "refs swallow the whistle in the 4th qtr" thing represents conventional wisdom, but according to 82games his FT rate actually increased in "clutch" situations (defined as 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points). He just didn't shoot the ball well in those situations.

    http://www.82games.com/1011/10HOU7.HTM#clutch
     
  7. VBG

    VBG Member

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    Wow, Kevin Martin a bench player on a good team? Really?

    His movement creates a lot of space for others.

    His shooting spreads the floor.

    He plays within the offense.

    He drives a lot resulting in foul trouble for the other team.

    He plays opportunistic defense.

    Most shooting guards don't make a difference in help defense anyway.
     
  8. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    People who think Ellis is better are confused. Ellis had better players around him his team did worse.
     
  9. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    Kmart is 4th, and really Joe Johnson is too streaky I'd rather have Kmart especially for the price. Last year Kmart maybe disappeared 2 games all season, while JJ was missing 1 out of 3 he just kept his stats nice by having a monster game every once in a while.
     
  10. haoafu

    haoafu Contributing Member

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    Last season he's decent in defense, and I see a lot of posts applauding that and stat proof about that. Now people are underappreciate him as much as they overappreciate Nene.

    Morey's failed trade of sending out Kmart and signing Nene is more about the fact that quality big men are scarce and we happen to have Coutney Lee as a good backup plan. Other than that, Kmart is as good as , if not better than Nene.
     
  11. plates300

    plates300 Member

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    I think one of Martin's greatest attributes, besides his scoring, is his ability to play without the ball. He does not need the ball all the time (Tyreke Evans) to be effective. He knows where to get his shot on the court and spaces everything out.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Do you think that might be because when the Rockets are ahead and the other team has to foul they get the ball to Kmart?

    DD
     
  13. BIGHchamp

    BIGHchamp Member

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    Haven't we learned anything from Herman Cain..

    Apples and oranges man, apples and oranges.
     
  14. sealclubber1016

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    In close games late, teams foul. Not hard to dissect that obvious stat.

    Simple fact, at no point since 2007 has his adjusted plus-minus been in the green. Not a perfect stat, but when the numbers on a guy are that consistent is says something. Good player, but not a star, or even a major difference maker.
     
  15. dharocks

    dharocks Member

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    I think it's too small a sample to really determine anything meaningful, and it seems to fluctuate year-to-year. But an average of 22+ FTA per 48 min is pretty ridiculous.
     
  16. mastraw18

    mastraw18 Member

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    Why? Because he plays for Houston. If he played for a higher market team, teams/media would be drooling over him.
     
  17. dharocks

    dharocks Member

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    Until you show me actual numbers that say Martin's FT rate (minus intentional fouls) decline consistently in the 4th quarter, I'm not going to regard the argument as anything more than a combination of conventional wisdom based assumptions and observer bias. I'm not saying he's clutch or that the hypothesis is incorrect, just that I tend to reject those kinds of arguments without objective evidence.

    I wish more detailed NBA splits were available to the public.
     
  18. YaosDirtyStache

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    He has the face of a rat, weighs 10 pounds, and smells like ELDERBERRIES
     
  19. thedreamsteam

    thedreamsteam Member

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    :grin: you beat me to it!
     
  20. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    I think the knocks against him are unfair.

    He is the only guy in the league I'm aware of who gets criticized for getting his shots within the offense. As far as not creating shots, well, the guy is a shooting guard and not a point guard. Sure, it would be nice if he had McGrady-like court vision and passing instincts but it's not at all necessary to be a great PG in this league.

    The defense is another story, although I thought he improved last year, he is still certainly below average (but no worse than Scola). A shot-blocker in the middle would do wonders for Martin's effectiveness (and reputation) on defense.

    He is a great piece on the right team and good value here. I personally believe he is good enough that you plan around him to some extent unless a super sweet deal comes along.
     

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