Hey, if you think I'd take up arms over some crap like this, you are r****ded. The article I posted was to show WHY they married, not to prove your point. I would be shocked to hear that even have ONE muslim friend. t4651965, your just an idiot, maybe a fatwa should be issued on you. Geez
Hey MadMax, Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct ... the picture Muslims are painting of themselves and the faith is quite shocking and disturbing. Every day, I cringe to go read any news site, fearing what I'll find ... pretty sad stuff. A lot can be said why this is happening, but more than anything I blame the clergy in the Muslim countries for trying to wield power and leave the general populace incapable of free thought, or unable to question anything. Islam has become like a black box ... no free thought comes in, and nothing constructive comes out. Very secretive, closed minded. The overall ignorance helps the cause of the clergy to retain power ... keep scaring people, telling them they're wrong to question their towering knowledge, cuz you know, questioning them leads you straight to hell These countries need to attempt to change things at the grassroots level. Educate the people, that alone, I think, will take care of a lot of issues. Slowly wean the countries off of the clergy, and put in a more moderate government ... not necessarily secular, but folks are willing to change and grow. During the 'golden years' of the Islamic civilization, there was open exchange of knowledge, people were willing to question things, to formulate, all that creativity has been stifled and replaced with squabbles over trivial issues ... one beard hair is not the correct length, the ankle is showing here, your hands are not placed properly when praying ... all things that are upto the individual, not for anyone to question or dictate. As an example, in the recent elections in Pakistan ... a qualified individual won, but his party was iffy about the whole situation ... why? Because he didn't have a beard. When I first read this, I basically bust out laughing, but it's pretty sad. I think the clergy of any faith is there as a service for the citizens, not to tell them, coerce them into submission to their views. They are supposed to provide support on the spiritual side, and thats it ... not take over everyday life, instilling fear in people, and a hatred for other faiths, cultures etc. So basically the point of this was ... a lack of resources, education, insight and overall atmosphere breeds this ignorance and blind hatred ... it's not everyone
Translation- maybe I should be killed for my opinion? I love those wacky, peaceful, misunderstood Muslims!
Hayes Very easy to start bashing away on an article when you don't understand it...I'll agree there are problems with it -- but the term "orientalist" refers to Westerners who have some exotic, totally misguided conception in their mind of what the muslim lifestyle is (i.e. naked lesbian harem girls smoking opium all day). So you do apply...
I read the whole article and maybe I "misunderstood" it but where does it say that the above is what it means when it refers to "oreintalist" Granted, I gave the author the benefit of the doubt and assumed there was no racism involved, but given the tone of the rest of the piece, you can't blame HayesStreet for thinking there is. If "orientalist" is a commonly used term in these sort of pieces that we are all just suppossed to know what it means, then the article shouldn't have been posted as a "see, read this and you'll understand..." type article (although, even if there was no confusion over the possible racist tone inherent in it it still does a horrible job proving any point). The piece lacks any factual evidence to prove anything. But even taking things at surface value, it fails to further Azadre's cause. It attacks the apparent belief by some that the Prophet was either a pedophile or child abuser, although neither accusation was brought up here. It continues, in a proud and revered manner, to throw out statistics characterizing a man's wives, asif its perfectly normal to keep this kind of information on an Excel spreadsheet to update weekly. If this wasn't strange enough (we can assume it was okay to have multiple wives back then - although to have as many, widowed or not, seems very odd) the article finishes by relaying an opinion that the Prophet would make a good dictator in the modern world. All in all, the piece is a rambling editorial poorly mixing religious, social, scientific and political themes in an unsuccesful attempt to disprove an argument that hasn't even been raised on this board. I am a man of faith, but I don't think that makes me a man of religion. Disputing (via any means) over religious beliefs that themselves become ingrained in a person mainly as a function of time and place, makes absolutely no sense to me.
I'm pretty sure I understood it perfectly well, thank you. In fact, although I was certain it was bashing those from the subcontinent (most likely Hindus) with the reference to 'orientalists,' I double checked a definition before I posted just to make sure. Main Entry: ori·en·tal·ism Pronunciation: "Or-E-'en-t&l-"i-z&m Function: noun Usage: often capitalized Date: 1769 1 : a trait, custom, or habit of expression characteristic of oriental peoples 2 : scholarship or learning in oriental subjects - ori·en·tal·ist /-t&l-ist/ noun, often capitalized Main Entry: ori·en·tal Pronunciation: "Or-E-'en-t&l, "or- Function: adjective Date: 14th century 1 often capitalized : of, relating to, or situated in the Orient 2 a : of superior grade, luster, or value b : being corundum or sapphire but simulating another gem in color 3 often capitalized : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of Orientals 4 capitalized : of, relating to, or constituting the biogeographic region that includes Asia south and southeast of the Himalayas and the Malay Archipelago west of Wallace's line - ori·en·tal·ly /-t&l-E/ adverb 'Orient' has never referred to 'anyone but Muslims' as you indicate, or to Westerners (that would make NO sense) so I think you're reaching. Spare me you claim of my 'not understanding it,' since that couldn't be farther from the truth unless 'its just a Muslim thang,' in which case there is no way the probable target of the article would be able to comprehend the hidden meaning (since Muslims presumably would have you understanding but would not need the article since they would not have a problem with Mohammed's 'lifestyle' choices)... As for Westerners 'misconceptions' of what his life was like, he had a bunch of wives, he had 'revelations' in bed with a nine year old, etc etc. Not sure exactly what we're misunderstanding...
So what is the correlation, Azadre? Your post seems to imply that in some way whatever that newspaper said justifies or excuses what these assholes are doing. Ever heard of freedom of speech? And by the way, what's wrong with saying that Mohammed would have been interested in one of these Miss World contestants? What's the insult in that?? What to get pissed about? By the way, F.D. Khan, you are the voice of reason here from the perspective of people who believe in Islam. But I am very worried about the fact that there seem to be so many misguided, ignorant and militant supporters of Islam. I know there are misguided and ignorant followers of Christian religions as well, but they seem much less like a threat to world peace to me. Sorry to say that and I am not making a statement about which religion is "better" - I just see a lot more terror and violence coming from people who think they are following Islam.
I wasn't trying to defend the extremists. What I heard is different then what acctually happened. I heard that mohammed wanted the show, not he'd marry a contestant. It's libel if you ask me. I really don't like it, BUT I would not and I repeat would not become an extremist over it.
You know what, I think Jesus would have probably checked out the girls in the Miss World contest as well. Oh, and Buddha and Confucius and whoever else would probably have done the same thing. Hey, the Dalai Lama might have checked them out on TV. So what? Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings with that .
