Well said. I think Chuck knows he wouldn't be starting if we had a decent option in front of him, but we don't, and he's very good at taking up the slack. He's a very valuable part of this roster and I hope we can manage to keep him. Thabeet? I just wish he'd shown me something on the court besides his size. He was a gamble by Morey that I've yet to see being worthy of rolling the dice. Size doesn't mean jack unless you know what to do with it. Not at this level.
By the way, I should have never started the Chuck Vs. Thabeet debate, but its just a prime example of the crap out there listed as a "center" that costs way too much and cant perform the same as if you were to play two quality PF's rather than a PF and a crap center. You could list all the other centers out there potentially available and compare them to the production of Chuck Hayes in the post. (take blocked shots out of the equation and think of overall post defense as a whole) Chuck > Fesenko Chuck > Mahinmi Chuck > Darko Chuck > Peckovic Chuck > Andersen Chuck > Ryan Hollins Chuck > Pryzbilla Chuck > Kwame Chuck > Diop Chuck > Tony Battie Chuck > old Theo Ratlcliffe Chuck > Petro Chuck > Gadzuric I could go on, and on. These are the available centers that the league is riddled with. Again, would you rather have two solid post players who are undersized but perform well or one of these guys and a solid PF????? Until Dwight Howard falls in love with the Breakfast Klub and wants to come to Houston this is what the Rockets have to choose from. Just get used to it.
A lot of people here on this BBs like to blame Scola for the Rockets bad defense but protecting the basket is the center's role. Opposing teams make a bee line to the Rockets basket because Chuck just doesn't have the size. Most of the players you listed are effective defenders at 5 for simply being big alone.
I respectfully disagree, and yes I do think that Chuck gets the blame for alot of things that are really Scola's fault. FYI, Scola plays the center position on defense most nights anyways even though he is listed as the PF. Scola typically guards the weaker of the post players on the opposing teams which usually is the Center. People on here are basically arguing against me for the wrong reasons. Would Morey trade Chuck for the draft rights to Drummond???.. absolutely. If Drummond was on the Rockets roster right now, would he play over Chuck... probably not. It might not make sense to fans, but you have to look at things from the coach/GM's angle to understand why the Rockets have been playing Chuck Vs. some 7th. knuckle head who has long arms. You have to realize the coach and the GM's goal is to win games by playing the players that give you the best ability to win. Anyone on here that has coached a game of basketball at any level will tell you that they will not play a guy in the post that has the most size but does everything else bad. If I am a coach, give me post position, quick rotations, immovable lower body strength, rebounding, smart BBIQ, toughness, any day over the taller guy who might intimidate based on size alone.
Look up Darkos stats Vs. Chucks, then look at their salaries. That one block a game is really worth an extra 3 Million a year, especially when Chuck makes up for it in charges taken??? Oh, but I forgot Darko intimidates everyone in the league when they think about driving to the hoop. FYI, I would trade Chuck for a top 5 pick any day, which is where Drummond would probably end up if they held the draft today. Lets, just wait and enjoy the really exciting NCAA season that starts up in a few days and see what this kid can do before we all say he's worth tanking for.
It's not about guarding post players one on one. The damage is done by opposing guards and wings who have room to move and party like it's 1999. Chuck just isn't the space eater the Rockets at C.
Dobro, you're putting words through my keypad... I guarantee Darko, or any other 7 fter, would intimidate or discourage a penetrating opposing player , more than Chuck Hayes setting up for a charge... I'm not sayin a charge is ineffective... But it doesnt keep players from attacking the basket "at will", like a legit 7 fter would..Even if that 7fter only gets 1 bpg... Thats just common sense.
This whole Chuck debate thing IMO will be pointless because I don't see Morey resigning him. Chuck is a guy I'd love for the team to sign a MLE when we're over the cap(like an Ariza signing). But not a guy to give something like 4yr/$20mil to when $10-15 mil under the cap. IMO, it really is best for both parties to part. We've managed to have the guy play on peanuts for the past few years since we discovered him. But paying market rate for Chuck is a bit pointless given where we are right now.
^ If we strike out on Nene/Gasol we can offer Hayes a one year deal thats fairly lucrative and not hinder our shot at a max cat next offseason. Hopefully Chuck would be appreciative and sign for min next year.
You really think Darko would help this team more, based on nothing else but his ability to block some shots? Please realize that Chuck owns Darko in every other facet of the game. Darko may help the Rockets as far as help defense goes, but would set them back pretty much everywhere else.
I think a year ago, I proposed giving Hayes a Collison deal, heavily frontloaded and cheap from year 2 on. And I'd feel like Hayes is one of those players who wouldn't quit after getting big money. But now I'm not so sure Morey will do this. McHale feels that defense starts with twin towers. We've drafted Patterson and Donatas, and extended Scola. Overall I don't see space for Hayes unless the Rockets move Scola.
I agree actually to this. We have to look at the signs of the times. If, and its a huge If now, they do salvage a 50 game season, the Rockets are at a major crossroads in terms of where they want to go for the future. If they are able to play this season though, and they strike out at signing a quality Center in the short free agency/trade period, Chuck might be their best option at making the playoffs This Year. With a lossed season, the Rockets are a position to compleletly dismantle the roster anyways. If there is a shortened season, then it makes sense to possibly just sign him for a one year deal, if he accepts that is. If I had to put money on it, Im guessing Chuck signs a deal with the Boston Celtics. I think they can offer him a pretty decent deal and offer him playing time on a contending team. I see him being an excellent fit, and might even win over the starting job next to Garnett. He makes more sense to me then Big Baby or Jeff Green. This is a scenario I think the Rockets front office will shake his hand and say thank you for your services. Come back whenever you want, and good luck on getting a title. I agree a 4 year deal at this point wouldn't make much sense, but id rather give Chuck a 4 year deal than Darko, or any other bad/overpaid center out there on the market.
Unfortunately, it was impossible for the Rockets to offer Hayes that kind of contract. Under the old CBA, salaries cannot decline by more than 10.5% or 8%, depending on whether the player was signed as a Bird free agent or not. My guess is that such rule will carry over to the new CBA. The ONLY reason that the Thunder were able to sign Collison to that deal was that they had extra cap room IN SEASON and were able to take advantage of a salary cap loophole to get Nick that huge signing bonus. I doubt you'll see a contract like that more than once every 4-5 years, tops.
Sad to see Clutchfans argue that Darko is better than Chuck, when Chuck has done nothing but destroy more than half of these so called starting the Centers the last few years... Hell, he handled Pau and Bynum at their best...
My theory is that we're at the Moneyball hangover stage---where for some reason, undersized PFs came in as a massively underrated asset to have, and as a result, just like Oakland, the Rockets stacked up. I mean, statistically speaking, they're probably doing something wonderful (maybe getting PERADVSGFG% up), it just probably won't translate into wins---just like how Oakland managed to assemble a cast of OBP wizards, got in a few surprising seasons, then flamed out (but, hey, at least they had a lot of high OBP guys.)
