The fact that the NOW is SOLELY protesting against Augusta, takes all the steam out of their sails since there are other private golf clubs that CLEARLY go against the beliefs of the NOW moreso than Augusta does. Ummm, if your point is to get a moral backing of the public behind you, of course you protest in the most visible place. You have limited resources for this fight and you can get a hell of a lot more out of them by putting public pressure on Augusta than you could by targetting smaller courses where you won't get any massive public pressure. To create change, they need to get the support of people. To do that, you need media attention. You don't get that by protesting your local country club that nobody knows about. This seems like just common sense to me.
How do you know the NOW doesn't protest these clubs, but on a less public level? Augusta National may be the most recognized country club in the nation and hosts quite possibly the most storied golf tournament in the world. Of course they'd focus their protests there. To assume that they don't care about other clubs and their discriminatory practices just because of publicity reasons is disrespectful. If anyone ever said the same about you, you'd be up in arms. NJ Rocket. No, I don't belong to a private organization. If it's going to make me a sexist *******, I'll never belong to one. I'll definitely never belong to one that discriminates on something like sex or race.
Its not illegal to ask to be a member just as its not illegal to be denied membership. It is relevant in that if there are no laws broken, and the higher ups or members wish for it to remain as it is then the people who are arguing to have members allowed do not have a leg to stand on. How is it immoral? It is not a moral issue either. What is immoral about having a club that has male members only? It is a club that has a selected criteria for its members. My brother can not join the Texas Exes even though he has had season tickets for football for the last 5 years b/c he is not a grad. He would like to take part in some activities but can't, should he make a plea to them on a moral level? How is it any different?
But, like Refman said, the NOW would consider it a victory if Augusta let a female member in...while there are clearly, hundreds of other all-men golf clubs that don't even let them in the front door.
Well if you want to start throwing aroun thinnly veiled barbs, ok. You conveniently changed what you said. You originally said that hosting the tourny "flies in the face" of them being a private, rather than public institution. That is simply ridiculous. But now you retreat and change the character of your original post followed by an attempt to slam me. You made a comment while not knowing what you were talking about...now you try to change what you said and throw a barb at the guy who called you on it. Nice tactic, guy.
True. Of course, can you blame me for actually having a life where I don't have to plot ways to "get people" on a BBS?
RM95...you didnt answer the 2nd question... Do you consider the Girl Scouts or Cub Scouts sexist assholes? Why or why not?
How is it immoral? It is not a moral issue either. What is immoral about having a club that has male members only? It is a club that has a selected criteria for its members. The fact that we're having this debate on this BBS tells you that someone thinks its wrong. Since everyone knows its not legally wrong, what does that leave? That some people think it's morally wrong. You disagree - that's fine - that's what the debate is about. But to defend it based on the law is ludicrous because no one is arguing that there's a legal question here. It's akin to me backstabbing a friend and saying I did nothing wrong because it's not illegal to backstab people. Who the hell cares if its not illegal - that's not the issue!
Of course it would be a victory. I just don't understand how y'all can ASSume that they don't care about other discriminatory clubs.
But, like Refman said, the NOW would consider it a victory if Augusta let a female member in...while there are clearly, hundreds of other all-men golf clubs that don't even let them in the front door. Of course they would - because it would be a start. If the issue gains moral strength - a big if - then that change can start a chain reaction of changes in smaller clubs as their members start getting criticized and/or change their views on the issue. Change things at the top and it will trickle down to all the wanna-be clubs as well.
Because I belong to one and we have never heard so much as a peep from any women's organization in the past 10 years. Understand now?
No. One of the main purposes of these organizations, and others like them, is to bring together a group of people of the same sex. Golfing is not about that.
As the poll at the top of this page suggests, NOW is clearly in the wrong on this issue. Augusta is a private club that should be commended for sticking to its policies despite intense public scrutiny (by a small minority). The fundamental principals on which they founded one of the greatest institutions in golf should not be sacrificed simply because of some upset female extremists. Women *can* and often do play at Augusta. For this they should be grateful. NOW is yet again alienating themselves from the American public and further validating their lunatic fringe stereotype. At the private level, organizations are free and clear to conduct business *as they please* provided it is within the guidelines of the law. To deny this basic right is to restrict individual freedom.
Blow me, Refman. You're the prick who conveniently changed what I said. (thin veil removed) Amongst other rewording you've done, my original quote included "KIND OF flies in the face." If this doesn't denote perception, I don't know what will do it for you. I knew damn good and well what the hell I was talking about, and I haven't changed a thing. I still maintain that Augusta National's national visibility on public television KIND OF flies in the face of the factual reality that they are considered a private entity. I don't believe they should be forced to change, but I do believe they deserve all the derision they are receiving.
Who are you, junior, to tell Augusta National what the main purpose of their organization is? This is a perfect example of what this argument boils down to. It boils down to people trying to impose their beliefs on others. It boils down to: Lunatic fringe extremists who know next to nothing about the game of golf or what it stands for vs. The leading golfing institution in the country You tell me who is better equiped to decide policies for their own private club?
Is that necessary? No, I am telling you that i know for a fact that the club I belong to hasn't been approached by the NOW
Still sexist...I can't join the girl scouts. If you don't like it, protest it. More power to you. If enough people agree with the merits of your argument, perhaps you can put enough pressure on them to change. I don't see the problem here.
Who are you, junior, to tell Augusta National what the main purpose of their organization is? This is a perfect example of what this argument boils down to. It boils down to people trying to impose their beliefs on others. It boils down to: Lunatic fringe extremists who know next to nothing about the game of golf or what it stands for vs. The leading golfing institution in the country You tell me who is better equiped to decide policies for their own private club? Who are you to tell other people what they can or can't protest? This is a perfect example of what this argument boils down to. It boils down to people trying to impose their beliefs on others. It boils down to: Lunatics who don't like free speech vs. NOW making their own choice on how to spend their time. You tell me who is better equiped to decide what NOW chooses to use their own time and energy for?
