Rudy T’s Idea of Passing the Ball

crashi5179 is sure diggin up the stats today.


nice point by the way. back in the day we had ball movement up the ass. smith, horry, hakeem, otis and even vernon and cassell would find the open man in the half court.

i think this team will start resembling something like that by the end of this season. francis is not kidd and rudy does not expect him to be. this team will kick ass when everyone decides to pass.

 

I think I'm gonna cry... good stuff crash.

 

Great post! I was actually thinking of putting up a post about people who want the big assist point guard vs team assists. I for one like the team assist more, and people who want more ball movement will see that Francis will not average the high numbers. I think having all the guys on the court as passing threats will not only be more efficient for our offense but scary for the defense.

 

Sam and Kenny combined for about 10 assists...

Steve isn't giving the ball up early enough, and no Rocket gets double-teamed consistantly

it all starts with Steve, he can score until he is blue in the face if it's up to me... but he's got to give the ball up and get it back with the defense out of position (and with time on the shot clock)

I'm not complaining though... I've seen good effort to that end from Steve and it's still very early in the season

 

Crash, I totally agree with the idea of distributing the assists, not putting the assist burden totally on Steve, and getting dimes from the rest of the team. I mentioned some of these points in a post buried in an inane thread:
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45524&perpage=30&pagenumber=2#post635653

However, the only aspect of the Rockets game that shows they've "already started" on that path is the fact that their point guard only has 5 APG. What in their style of play so far shows that they are going beyond that? Guys standing around while the guards hold the ball -- that doesn't provide opportunities for the rest of the team to get assists.

The championship Rockets did distribute the assists around, while relying primarily on the one-on-one talents of Hakeem to create opportunities for others. But I don't recall Hakeem necessarily holding the ball that long. This gave more opportunities to swing the ball around -- resulting in lots of guys getting assists. I remember during the '95 finals, Dream and Shaq were both kicking it out really quickly if they saw aggresive doubles. Guys would quickly shoot, or return it to the post.

But later, when Barkley came along, I thought part of the problem was that he held the ball too long, and there wasn't much opportunity for the perimeter guys to do much of anything after he kicked it out.

Likewise, there's not many assist opportunities (to use a term coined by codell) created when our guards hold the ball too long. To make things worse, if nothing opens up, and it falls on Steve or whoever to create a shot, it's often a way lower percentage shot then one from a big man in the low post. Our offense back then also had stagnation problems, but Hakeem's grace and athleticsm, or Charles' strength and sheer will, would get us a good percentage shot. No matter how talented (or how hot his hand currently is), Steve from the perimeter results in an offense not nearly as consistent in the long run -- and much more vulnerable to off-shooting nights.

Steve doesn't have to be a prototypical point averaging 10 APG for us to be successful. But there are fundamental flaws in our system which prevent others from getting the assists. I know we have a long way to go, but I don't really see us getting there by standing still -- so to speak.

That said, once our post threats become consistent -- and that is just a matter of time, assuming we feed them the ball -- well, that can cover up a bunch of sins. But likewise, a good offensive system can compensate for the lack of a post threat -- again, referring to Sacramento, they still had success when Webber was out.

 

Good thread Crash. I do agree that Steve doesn't need to have 8.0 assists a game to be more than effective. We're going to have to have everybody distributing the ball better, MoT's assist to Yao was the highlight for me Friday. We do need more assists coming from our front court too. I think Steve's complaints about passing in to certain players means the ball's never coming back out are valid, KT is forcing way too many shots, Cato - well damn I miss Cato, but he needs to recognize defenses better when he receives the ball. Yao's gettiing limited touches and he need to shoot when he's open, but his passing skill isn't going to really show until his touches double.

For such a tight team, I think there's some trust issues that Steve's working on. I like that Rice and MoT talk about passing every chance they get and Cat, though his game was off after the 1st quarter Friday, really showed he's trying to do other things than shoot. I think he will be a lot more effective 99% of the time even if he's taking a few less shots, but I think his mindset is changing and I'm grateful for that.

By the way, off-topic here, but did anybody else think Rice was showing more hustle than usual Friday night? I'm not saying he had a good game. But a couple of his fouls I thought were refreshing. He will never be a good defender, but he will be better if he continues with that kind of effort.

 

Great response!

 

Crash agree 100%. It seems the direction of this team will be the big men handling a lot of the passing and assist duties. It appears the direction of the new offense will be players like Mo Taylor, Yao Ming, KT etc handling a lot of the passing duties. The idea seems to be that one of these players catch the ball up high and someone like Mobley or Rice eventually Nachbar come off a screen away from the ball. Ofcourse this does not happen with enough frequency b/c the chemistry is just not there on offense yet as Taylor is still getting into the flow, and Ming is getting used to the NBA ropes.

Sacramento's offense is based in huge part on the big men passing and the other players cutting and coming off screens away from the ball. They do utilize a form of high pnr also, but that is more so when Bibby is healthy. Bibby became very adept at stepping behind a screen last season in the playoffs and getting himself a high pct mid range shot.

I think the biggest area where this team could improve on to increase the offensive efficieny is simply getting into the offense a whole lot sooner. If you notice, Dallas does not have any real complicated offensive schemes; they dont really run anything near as complex as Sacto. The whole reason the Mavs shoot such a high pct is that they get TONS of early offense. The concept is really very simple; whether the other team makes or misses, the ball needs to be across halfcourt in a hurry in order for the defense to continuously have to work. The Mavs always look for an area where they can strike quickly before going into any kind of offensive set. The Rockets on the other hand usually either walk the ball up the court a large chunk of the time or teams run full court press on them which somehow slows them down to a grinding halt despite the ball handling guards on this team. It really irks me that a team that is guard based should have several instances where only 10 seconds are left on the shot clock when they start the offense.

 

Too bad there' s no stat for "ease of baskets". What upsets me is when Steve (or Cat or Mooch) dribbles the ball through crowds of defenders, ignoring open men, and then, with the shot clock at 2 seconds, makes some incredibly athletic move or impossible shot for two points.

THEN - while the crowd is still cheering wildly for our heros feat, the opposing team makes a long downcourt pass to an open man who makes an easy layup.

Result: the Rockets use 23 seconds of time and a huge amount of effort from one man to get two; their opponents use 4 seconds and almost no effort for two.

Two points are two points, but in the long run the team that gets the easy layup is going to beat the team that gets the "impoosible shot".

 

I'm gonna cry too, crash.
Distribution! Let's hope we see it tonight. Wow, I'm really enjoying reading these posts. Don't stop making sense. This is why I come here. Intelligent discussion.

Rice DID look much better, declan. He should be up for the Lakers.

 

Nice post. I agree. I dont want a high assist point guard. I believe stevie should continue his shooting spree, BUT I think the rockets should look for that extra pass to the open man.
That is where the lacking of assists is. Once Stevie or Cat brings up the ball they pass it off to another player like Kenny or Griffen and instead of keeping the passsing going, perhaps by making the defense collaspe by driving, they hold it for a long time and then do their thing and jack it up. So it is a team that needs to get assists. not just Stevie.
...
...another note, I think Ming should be told to post up. not stand so high. He should be near the rim, not on the free through line...or the arch..

 

This is the kind of relatively easy thing that I'm looking for -- not necessarily much more complex schemes -- that seems like we could do more of.

With our quickness, we should be able to run more early offense or "quick" sets. These aren't freelance fast breaks, but structured plays that exploit defenses getting back slowly on defense. Pushing the ball up quickly, and running things like loops to get easy open jumpers for our shooters, and quick back screens to get cheap lobs to our big guys down low. Again, sets that leverage our strengths (i.e., quickness), and mask our weaknesses (inability to execute complex sets, or run the break).

At the least, if the quick pass or easy look is denied, we have more time to run our half-court set.

 

Well said Crash...well said.

DaDakota

 

I think it was Crash in a different post that pointed out that the team passing is starting to work. KT and I can't remember who else are avg. career high assists at this time.

I don't think it's perfect yet, but far from it. However, I do really see concerted effort on the teams part to head in that direction. A young team, injuries, and new offensive concept all add up to it not being set in place at the moment, and plenty of mistakes being made.

The good thing is that if they keep trying it should improve over time.

 

Agreed that we've seeing glimpses this season, and that things will improve over time. Yes, we have seen some cool plays run this year, but it's still been too few and far in between. How much of what we're seeing are mistakes being made executing new plays, rather than things degenerating back into the same old ways? Again, the excuses/rationalizations are getting tired. Of course, we have to give them time -- but tell me when we draw the line between patience and futility?

I think a more realistic expectation is that our improved effectiveness will probably come more from better front-court production, rather than by improved team passing a la Sacramento -- even though I'd like the latter to play more of a role. But hey, a win by whatever means is all that counts.

 

Assuming they can finally start playing without having to change their starting lineup every single game? I'd give them until at least the all-star break, and probably a fair bit beyond that.

 

When Steve first came to the Rockets, he was very unselfish. He would frequently dish the ball out instead of thunder dunking on say some Jahidi White.

Now Steve looks a little more agressive to the rack and I think it will also mean that teams will have to double him, but it will require some assertiviness.

Steve is really a # 2 that can play a #1 well enough. If you remember that is why he didn't want to go to the Griz because they already had a #1 with Bibby.

How about Cat/Moochie with the Dimes? 3.0 and 1.9. Both of their field goal percentages are lower, so I say, when Fox is trying to stand in the middle, do a Ricky Davis and go up and over him to make him get posterized on SportsCenter.

Steve, keep up the good work.

 

Who were the last NBA champs with a high assist PG? How many did Isiah and Magic ring up in their championships?

 

Both were well up in the double figures...Isiah around 10-11, Magic around 11-12 game...