I'm not real sure what this thread is about any longer. Are you guys upset about turnovers, shot attempts, or decision making? I think Stevie is coming along nicely. His turnovers are very reasonable considering the amount of time the ball is in his procession. He is shooting great and making good decisions, that is what will bring a Championship. Everyone is the league is praising his play. This is a great thread talking about what Steve is trying to do and improve on. Check it out, it's very informative. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45382
Francis is now 8th in the L in TO's behind the likes of Cwebb, Kobe and Jason Kidd. Go hate on those guys and leave the Franchise alone.
I think afta 30 ponts a game 8 boards and 6-7 assists a game, i think i can handle the turnovers. He handles the ball so much.....i think he's warranted a few.
fair enough...i thought the conversation was centered around whether a team with a point guard-dominated offense was one that could win a title...and whenever anyone starts talking about that, they immediately point to the Pistons. The Pistons were an anomaly because of teamwork and tough defense...there were no superstars on that team. That's why I loved rooting for them. That's why I loved watching them beat the Jordanaires those years. what's encouraging is the way the rockets have begun to play a little team defense this year...i'm excited about that.
<i>fair enough...i thought the conversation was centered around whether a team with a point guard-dominated offense was one that could win a title</i> As far as a point guard-dominated offense goes, Magic controlled everything for the Lakers. On the 86-87 Championship team, Magic led the team in pts/game, field goal attempts and assists. Everything on that team went through Magic. If they were scoring Magic usually either scored the bucket or got the assist.
Comparing Steve and Isaiah, and the Rockets with the mid-80s Pistons would be fair. Steve the better rebounder and IMHO scorer, Isaiah the better playmaker. Both the Pistons and the Rockets...young, and up and coming teams, with their leader in his fourth year...The teams are not clones, but similar. The Pistons were not a collection of role players as stated earlier. Dumars a 6 time all-star, Liambeer a 4 time all star. Four of the six retired Piston jerseys come from this group. And they were more aggressive on defense and considered dirty by most if not all. Liambeers nicknames, Street Thug, His Heinous, ,Ax Murderer and Prince of Darkness were used throughout his career. Dirty?? You decide.!! The Rockets are young and aggressive, not dirty, but headed in the right direction. It took Isaiah 9 years to build the 1988-89 champs. This is Steves fourth year leading the Rockets.. So this comparision will be more valid in five years. Hey Codell-- LIAMBEER 4 time all star==over 10,000 pts and over 10,000 rebs, considered an all time NBA great (nba.com....all time NBA greats) compare to....Cato Wouldn't only a myopic basketball fanatic compare Cato to Bill Liambeer
ZZ, Just to clarify, the reason for the comparison was to refute a post that said we have more talent now than Detroit did during their championship years. I was comparing individual talent and not the team as a whole. Laimbeer was indeed dirty to a point. More importantly, Mahorn and him were enforcers. We could use a player like that (could Cato fill this role?). However, todays NBA would never allow a player to get away with the same things that Laimbeer and Mahorn did. Haha. Youre the first person on here that has ever accused me of being myiopic. Egad. Like I said in my perentheses, I really feel Laimbeer has the edge. When I was looking at both players, I was using Cato's performance so far this year, instead of his career and thats why I went ahead and put it as a wash. I didnt want to look like I was being biased towards the Pistons just for the purpose of proving my point. So I decided to throw a bone to those who would disagree that the Pistons had more talent than we do.
This is a fun thread, if it's really about Steve's turnovers. I've been accused of Steve-bashing before, but I'm here to tell you I'm very pleased with his overall improvement from last year. Once rotations get set assists will go up, turnovers will decrease and so will Steve's scoring average. I want improvenment fom this team from top to bottom and I think a certain amount of achievement (a playoff spot) is very likely. Steve's impressing me and the NBA right now. I'm not sure anyone esle on the team has started off well (except Hawkins), but I haven't been horribly disappointed yet either. I think it's time to start distinguishing Steve and Cuttino from the one-entity drone they've been in the past. Steve's play alone should be cutting him some slack, and being pissed off because of the frustration of last year has nothing to do with what's happened in the first 6 games. I think we'll go 2-3 in our next 5 games and I'll be alright with that as long as we seem to be improving. But if Steve goes for 20, 9 & 9 we'll still see screaming if we lose.
Hey stevie haters, look at the top ten assist/turnover ratio guys: 1 Kevin Ollie, MIL 7 17.4 27 3.9 5 0.7 10.6 5.40 2 Mike James, MIA 6 20.7 15 2.5 3 0.5 5.8 5.00 3 Gary Payton, SEA 8 38.5 85 10.6 20 2.5 13.2 4.25 4 Eric Snow, PHI 7 39.1 56 8.0 14 2.0 9.8 4.00 5 Tyronn Lue, WAS 8 22.5 23 2.9 6 0.8 6.1 3.83 6 Rasual Butler, MIA 6 21.3 15 2.5 4 0.7 5.6 3.75 7 Howard Eisley, NYK 8 24.1 38 4.8 11 1.4 9.5 3.45 8 Toni Kukoc, MIL 7 28.6 31 4.4 9 1.3 7.4 3.44 9 A. Peeler, MIN 9 25.2 24 2.7 7 0.8 5.1 3.43 10 Andre Miller, LAC 7 40.9 64 9.1 19 2.7 10.7 3.37 Let's see, Gary Payton, Andre Miller, and 8 journeyman. I don't exactly see any of the league's power teams up there either. Nobody says turnovers are good, but ****, would you really have andre miller instead? I wouldn't.
You, I and maybe twenty other guys would rather have Steve. The rest of the board would pitch in to pay for the plane ticket to ship Steve out.
Franchise does not have a lot of turnovers...He had two in the last two games...What do people want? Cato would run and hide if he ever saw Laimbeer running down the court...
magic wasn't exactly the typical PG...the guy played center at times! he was 6'9"!!! and the lakers were an extremely balanced team! remember, they had worthy at the 3 and the all-time scoring leader at the 5 spot...they weren't, what i would call, a point-guard dominated offense...getting an assist from passing the ball down to kareem for a skyhook, ain't exactly my idea of an assist as evidence of a pg dominated offense. a pg dominated offense was the 76ers a couple of years back...completely disproportionate shot attempts, scoring, etc....that's what i DON'T want to see!
it's aight if Steve is 5th in the L for Turnovers, he's second in the league for scoring 30.2 points per game.
Exactly, Magic wasn't a typical point guard. . Neither was Ron Harper. Neither is Steve. But combined Magic and Ron started at "pg" for 10 nba champions John Stockton IS a typical point guard. Mark Jackson IS a typical point guard, one of the all tiime great assist men. But combined they started at pg for 0 nba champions For the 100th time, it's the player that defines the position, and not vice versa.
wait, wait, wait...Ron Harper wasn't the focal point or even the second offensive option on the teams that won titles. Kenny Smith won 2 NBA titles, but a team that used Kenny Smith as its first option would be lottery-bound just as much as the Rockets have been with Steve so far. By the way, outside of my personal dislike for him, I would much rather have John Stockton running the point for my team than Ron Harper, rings aside! Magic and Francis are apples and oranges...completely. Magic was 6' freaking 9"!!! I don't disagree with your last sentence...and I'm not saying Francis isn't going to win rings...I hope he does! He's my favorite player! But the history of point guard dominated offenses in the NBA does not read like a who's who of champions.
Steve wasnt the reason the Rockets were a lottery team. The reason may have been a team with only one returning starter,,,or...two projected starters down with season ending injuries,,or..just the natural process, a young inexperienced team goes through. None of the pgs mentioned are like Steve, Iasiah Thomas was close though..at similar stages in their careers, Thomas was a life-long point guard...Steve only starting his fourth year at a new position.
