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Fastest-starting lineup?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Nero, Nov 12, 2002.

  1. Nero

    Nero Member

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    Man this is a weird weird feeling.

    In the past few seasons, it would have been unthinkable to
    imagine having so many talented players on the team that we are
    having trouble finding ways to play them all.

    But now, we have a real problem. A good problem, yes, but still a
    problem: Too many potentially good-to-great players, and not
    enough minutes for them all.

    It's a puzzle, a conundrum, a head-scratcher for sure.

    How the heck do we bring along the young players who need
    seasoning, while at the same time remaining competitive, and all
    that while managing to keep the (I suspect) fragile egos all nice
    and fuzzy warm?

    Heck if I know. The fact that I don't know how to solve it is ok,
    because I am just a dedicated fan.. ;) However, what scares me
    is the idea that maybe Rudy doesn't know either. But I am sure he
    does. Of course he does. Right?

    Anyway, in pondering this big puzzle that is the Rockets right now,
    it seems as though the main issues are thus:
    1) Steve an Cat 'gotta get theirs' . That's ok, they're both pretty
    darn good. But they are having to take too many minutes to
    'get theirs'.
    2) MoT, Rice, KT, Cato and Mooch, along with SF and Cat, could
    conceivably make up the core of a very competitive team that
    could make some noise in the playoffs. Unfortunately that
    would also mean they would take up the bulk of the minutes.

    3) This leaves (I still have a hard time believing this) EG, Ming,
    TMo, Boki, and the rest to fight over the scraps. These
    players all have potentially great talent, but without real
    minutes, they won't develop quickly, and might not develop
    well at all in that environment.

    So what the heck can we do? You know EG is going to get
    decent minutes, but Ming, Boki, Mckeal, Maddux, and even Hawk
    will have trouble seeing the floor.

    The only thing I can think of is this: we have got to develop a
    team that can jump out of the gate fast, get out to a double-digit
    lead early. This would allow Rudy to rest the starters more, while
    still letting them feed their egos with stats, and also let him start
    rotating in the young guys for some minutes that actually mean
    something instead of 30 seconds of garbage time, as we have
    seen so often in the past. Then, after a few minutes, when the
    lead starts to evaporate, just start rotating the big guns back in.
    If our team could pull this off, it would really go a long way to
    developing the skills of the really young guys, not to mention the
    added depth it would provide by season's end.

    So, rather than focusing all our attention on whether SF is the
    greatest assist man since Magic, or whether Cat takes too many
    shots, I am wondering what people think would be our fastest-
    starting lineup, out of the gate. We can worry about ideal stats
    until after about 18-20 minutes into the game, when the game
    strategy would likely get back to being more traditional.

    Possible Blitzkreig AttackAttackAttack Screw-the-shot-clock
    Starting lineup:

    SF (of course)
    Cat (of course)
    KT @ 3
    MoT @ 4
    EG @ 5 ? (maybe Cato, but if we are thinking pure offense,
    getting the opponents on their heels means we would not
    need the defensive presence of Cato as much as the potential
    offense of EG)

    All this is predicated, of course, on putting the ball in the bucket at
    a fast pace for the first 6 - 8 minutes of the game. We turn into the
    'gang-that-couldn't-shoot-straight', then all bets are off.

    And if that's not crazy enough, it seems to me that a few minutes
    at the beginning of the game spent utilizing a full court press may
    also help in the 'lightning strike' philosophy.

    So whaddya think? Am I crazy? I know this style could backfire,
    but it could also take the league by total surprise. (Plus, I know it
    will never happen, but it's interesting to think about.) ;)

    What lineup would you use?


    ciao
     
  2. codell

    codell Member

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    Only one thing scared me with this type of run and gun, helter skelter offense......................turnovers :p

    As well as this might help us and put us up by 10 quickly, it could just as easily backfire and put us down by 10.
     
  3. verse

    verse Member

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    i believe rudy's intent is to develop griffin, ming, boki, tmo, moochie, motay, kt, and hawkins into good to great ROLE PLAYERS. is it fair? well, maybe not to some of those guys, but i think it's entirely possible that rudy is doing that. build the team around cat/steve and surround them with role players that have the ability to go off for a good/great game.
     
  4. GATER

    GATER Member

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    codell -

    Is there a real difference between the extreme uptempo TO's and the TO's we currently get? ;)
     
    #4 GATER, Nov 12, 2002
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2002
  5. codell

    codell Member

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    Absolutely. We have quite a few turnovers playing in a half court set where the temp is mild. Steve, and to a lesser extent Cuttino, dont have the best passing or decision making skills. Put them into an uptempo envirnoment where the passing and decisions have to be made quicker than they are use to and exponential reasoning tells me, that TOs would increase.

    The TOs they get now are bearable because of the other things they do. But this team cant handle any more TOs than they already produce.
     
  6. jlaw

    jlaw Member

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    Well, trade 2 good players for a GREAT player.
     
  7. Nero

    Nero Member

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    Oh for God's sake! ShaddDAP!!

    And as for the turnover issue, yes it would obviously be a concern.

    However, for an attacking style like that to work properly, the team
    needs to be forcing the increased turnovers, not losing them.

    Think of those times when the team gets on a roll, one of those
    8 minute long runs that every team gets from time to time, when
    you may be tied, or down by a half-dozen, or maybe even leading
    a tight game, and then in almost the blink of an eye they suddenly
    have a 15 point lead.. the other team's turnovers always play a
    big role in those runs.. so why not try to make it happen right at
    the beginning of the game, when the opponent is not ready to
    react? And then, after they get their bearings, after being pounded
    by a press and blitzing hail of buckets, you go defensive and let
    your young guys play some real game minutes..

    It's not about playing 'not to screw up', or not to lose turnovers..
    it's about being aggressive, and utilizing the talents of the players
    we have on the team.. SF, Cat, and KT are all most effective when
    they are attacking..

    hehehe remember the old phrase, 'The best defense is a good offense.'

    :)
     
  8. GATER

    GATER Member

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    While I'm on record that Steve and Cat make poor decisions, this is probably worth noting -

    2001-2002 - Rockets were 27th in FB points in FB points

    Francis - 221 TO / 2,343 min = .094 TO/min
    Cat - 180 TO / 3116 min = .058 TO/min
    Team - 755 TO / 14,521 min = .052 TO/ min

    2002-2003 - Rockets are currently 10th in the league

    Francis - 21 TO / 194 min = .108 TO/min
    Cat - 16 TO / 221 min = .072 TO/min
    Team - 37 TO / 785 min = .047 TO/ min


    As you can see, statistics don't support an argument that increasing the TO's by increasing tempo is detrimental. Especially when you score quickly. That's my conclusion anyway. ;)

    I realize it's early, but this is not a 28 win team.
     
    #8 GATER, Nov 12, 2002
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2002
  9. rocket red

    rocket red Member

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    There is nothing wrong with a deep bench, especially when players get injured.

    Competition for playing time is a good thing. I'm sure the coaching staff will use this to motivate the younger players.
     
  10. solid

    solid Member

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    Rocket Red, you are right, the cream will come to the surface, sooner or later. The practices should be very competitive, and if you consistently dominate in practice, you are going to get more game time. This is a very good problem to have. Also, injures will happen, then a player has to make the best of his opportunity. The negative side of this problem is attitude. I think Portland is a good example of too much talent preventing good chemistry.
     
  11. zilches

    zilches Member

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    One thing appears almost certain. Some players (the bench) are going to have to have patience as they wait for playing time. And some fans, like me, are going to require a lot of patience. I want to see Ming and Nachbar on the court a lot, but it isn't going to happen soon.
     
  12. jevjnd

    jevjnd Member

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    I like this post a whole lot and agree to a point, however I do not think that we have the offensive center to have that kind of offense. If you look at some of the higher scoring run n' gun teams they generally have a multi-faceted center. If not they generally force the up-tempo and give up just as many points, I do not think that this type of game suits our strengths. We have too many low-percentage shooters as well, can you imagine Griff (bless the man he will be a good ball player) jacking up shots in transition? Not a pretty thought is it? Or MoT trying to run the floor? I just do not think that it would work very well.
     
  13. verse

    verse Member

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    i completely disagree. portland is an example of having no leaders on their team. having too much talent is not an issue if they all buy into a single concept and believe in their leader(s) on the court.
     
  14. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Boki, Tmo, Moochie, MoT, KT, Hawkins role players? Yes

    Griffin and Ming role players? I don't think that's what Rudy has in mind. He wouldn't have thrown all those picks (for Griffin) and gone through all those red tapes (for Ming) just to get role players.

    It's, of course, possible that Rudy found out they were nothing more than role players AFTER he picked them up. Then, that's too bad. Assuming they are still what Rudy has hoped they are, then Rudy must be setting his sight of developing both Griff and Ming into star quality players.

    If both of them live up to their potential, then I'd say Mobley looks more like a role player (a great one, if he accepts his role). The team would be built around the three stars, Francis, Ming, and Griff.

    I think 3 stars is probably the max a team can have without running into contract and ego problems. The Kings (Webber, Peja, Bibby) and the Mavs (Dirk, Nash, Finley) are currently the only 3-star teams.
     
  15. codell

    codell Member

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    One thing to consider also, when Steve or Cuttino are leading the break, more often that not, they take it to the hole themselves and do not pass as much as they should. So in reality, my original theory may be off as far as turnovers go because you dont see alot of passing on our breaks and therefore, wouldnt see alot of turnovers.
     

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