Why do people pray for someone?

Again, you are applying what some people may believe prayer is to everyone. You don't speak about the religion I believe in, because almost everything you say doesn't apply to it, has nothing to do with the Jesus I worship, the bible I read, and the reasons why I pray.

It isn't the stories I believe about the bible, it's the message. The evidence for God is existing is the evidence that love exists. God is love. Those that know love know God. Believing in Love, trying to be more loving etc. isn't removed from reality.

 

I'm cool with that, man. I can respect that through and through. We are probably very similar, then. Because I believe in a lot of Jesus' message, just not the supernatural claims. And of course, in saying that, I believe in love (even though I can sound like an ******* a lot of times). So if your god = love. Then I also believe in your god. Perhaps I'm just more honest with my classification (agnostic atheist as opposed to Christian).

 

For what it's worth - do you call yourself a Christian? Because I don't know anybody who claims to be a believer in Zeus just because the like the message of an almighty entity sending lightning from heaven. Zeus is power. Those who know power know Zeus.

 

I am a Christian. And what I quoted is about those that know love know God is from the bible. They aren't my words.

I'm not saying all religions follow their religion because of the message, and that it isn't irrational. I'm certainly not saying that all Christians follow religion in a rational way. Plenty don't.

The thing I object to is you making blanket statements that people praying has to be to prevent something or change some physical event. And saying that people follow religion for irrational reasons. What you said is definitely the case some times, but it isn't the case every time.

Like I said before wishing someone well doesn't heal them or make their life turn out great, but people who don't believe in God also wish someone well. It isn't irrational. In just the same way some people wish others well by praying for them. It's not a problem for anyone unless somebody makes it a problem.

 

That's my point. I believe in a lot of what you say as well. I don't like it when people deny science because of religion. To me that doesn't show a religion in a good light etc. The problems you have with Christianity, are probably almost identical to the problems I have with the way many people practice Christianity.

I just don't like the blanket statement that all religion is one way, or prayer definitely means this, because I think there are million different variations on all of it.

 

I'm just not interested in having my beliefs attacked. I question them on my own.

There are no implications for my beliefs in prayer that affect you in the slightest...and that's why it's entirely different than discussions on how I vote, raise my children, drive, etc. If I believed I were hurting you with it, I'd say it's not of God and I'd stop. You'd think I was a fool for using that logic, but at least you're appreciate the outcome.

But I'm not hurting you with it. Nor is anyone else. You're up in arms trying to prove how nonsensical I am...my wife is better at it and she looks good too.

 

You're right. I need to be careful with blanket statements. I suppose I make them more often since I was raised in a very conservative 7th Day Adventist community where, quite honestly, the blanket does cover the crowd. Thanks for the feedback.

 

Pics or GTFO

(I'm not bipolar, I swear. I'm just listening a bit. I think it goes back to the blanket statements issue. I know too many situations where somebody's irrational beliefs are hurting others. Thanks Max.)

 

I knew that was coming after I hit submit reply. :grin: Probably best to avoid posting pics of our wives/gf's here!

I hear ya...there are people with irrational beliefs hurting people. No question about it. What I get out of the New Testament is irrational love. Loving people the world would tell you are unworthy of love...forgiveness for the deepest jackass...never giving up hope that even the darkest soul can know and give love. Jesus suggesting that it wasn't enough to love your family/friends...that you should love your enemy even, and pray for their well-being??!! Yeah, that's irrational.

 

Just popped in to say how much I hate Signs.

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I feel you. I have the same background, and wonder about the same questions you've posed. I speak of religion harshly sometimes and often don't realize how much it bothers others. I think I'm just going to start avoiding discussing my thoughts about religion in the D&D, because the wrong people feel under attack. FB and MM are awesome, but honestly nothing like the vast majority of Christians I know. In fact, most Christians I know would say that they aren't really Christian. These are the people I'm constantly surrounded by...my family, friends, neighbors, everyone at church. I've only met a small handful of these cool, liberal, open-minded, social-justice-seeking Christians in real life. I want to treat Christianity as if it's the loving way of life depicted by the great posters here, but I'm just flat-out biased based on my observations.

 

Some of your posts were demeaning, offensive, and insulting.

You might reconsider jettisoning all of your religious teaching regarding how you treat others.

For those who do not necessaily believe, and consider the bible allegory, there are still lessons worth learning and living.

 

Except that you are completely discounting the value of psychological support and also the mind body connection. The placebo effect is shown to be a real phenomenon and there has been a lot of study done regarding the ability of the mental state to affect body chemistry and metabolic state.

Once again whether you believe in prayer or whether it works isn't so much the issue as does it help people deal with a difficult situation. If someone has cancer me praying for them probably won't cure them but if that helps to make them calmer and reduce their anxiety that is beneficial to dealing with the disease. Further if I am anxious and worried about them me praying (or in my case meditating over them) also helps to calm me down.

This is a very reductivist view of humanity though when as humans we are far more complicated than just rational versus irrational thought. Humans are social creatures and in that sense the idea of culture is critical to the functioning a human society. Pretty much any culture contains irrationalities. For example why do we root for the Rockets? What rational reason is there for us to wear red and go and cheer for some very tall guys trying to put an air filled leather sphere through a hoop? Yet we do so because that is our culture and we find through that a connection with others who share that culture by b****ing about those tall guys not able to put the sphere through the hoop enough on clutchfans.

As for your story let me ask you. Did the little girl feel better about herself when people thought she was Avril Lavigne? Did the other kids feel better about themselves? What if you found out the little girl had been very depressed and had low self-esteem issues? Would your judgement be so harsh if that was the case.

Except on this thread you are providing your own 'certain' answers. You are declaring defacto that prayer doesn't work, that God(s) don't exist. I am willing to agree with you that most likely prayer doesn't work in terms of actually curing cancer or causing the Rockets to win but as I said it doesn't really matter.

 

I once watched a video of Mother Teresa working with the poor in India.
I saw God in her, but do you know what she said, she saw God in the poor.

You know instead of praying for the poor, I think sending money would be appropriate.

For everyone who hates Christians you just need to meet one.

 

i choose to read each text within its context. when luke says, "i'm trying to give an account here so that it can be preserved..." i'm taking him at his word with that. and i read it in that context.

but when i'm reading psalms i'm reading poetry to and about God. it comes with a different purpose, entirely. when i read the OT i read it in light of Jesus who talked about a new covenant and who obliterated the whole Temple sacrificial system as it was known. the story of noah's ark is a story that pre-dates the Torah.

 

I don't want to get involved in this thread, but I really think you should read a bit more about Mother Teresa before you enshrine her views...

 

Thanks, I don't know anything other than the video. Thought she made a good observation, she thought by helping them she was serving Jesus.

That is a good point, you hear about people but you don't know that much really.

 

1. The New Covenant doesn't allow me to pick and choose...it is the NEW Covenant. That's not picking and choosing...that's been the foundation of the faith for 2K years.

2. I'm saying it's a story...I'm saying I don't know or care if it's true. There are lessons in that story that are more important than whether it happened literally. I do not say that same thing about the Resurrection. That either happened or it didn't. The writers of the Gospels are pretty clear that they're recording it as an event that had real ramifications....and then Paul goes on to say that if it didn't happen, we're all just wasting our time.

Again, IMO, you can not read the Bible "responsibly" without understanding its context. Who the audience is...what the writer was trying to communicate...etc. It's not one long book...it's a collection of books, poetry, letters, prophecy...not with one author with one purpose throughout. It's not an instruction manual or a science text. It's not a how-to book.