Just when it looked like Ming will have his breakout game ...

The "something" that happened last year was injuries. Now they have to get back to playing near that 40+ win level again.

 

The 40+ win season happened when

1.) Zone were not allowed. Therefore Rudy could use his lil iso offense with Mobley and Francis to the max efficiency.

2.) Hakeem began to play very well down the stretch, giving the Rockets a true low post presence.

We don't have these luxuries anymore. Only thing close to #2 is Ming gettin comfortable and becoming a force in the latter half of the season.

I just wanted to point out that this isn't the 40+ win team with a #1 draft pick b/c the circumstances are different now than 2 years ago.

 

What I don't get is this continual process that happens...We get Yao Ming, everyone is excited...And then he performs very well at the WCS, despite not getting the ball enough ( in everyone here's estimation), and heady predicitions are made about All-Star, is he going to be better than Shaq, etc...Rudy makes allusions to designing the offense with Yao Ming involved...

Then he comes here, and in the very few minutes he gets on the floor, he shows flashes of great play despite the fact that everyone and their sister can see he's not getting the ball. He also shows flashes of soft play, and appears at times to be a little confused by the pace on defense...

So, what do we know about him, from all of this?

1) Extremely skilled on offense, as evident from WCS, and the flashes here...

2) Is a team-oriented guy...he doesn't force shots, but readily passes the rock if he either sees another player in a better scoring position, or isn't in one himself. He also sees the court extremely well...

3) He has a strong lower body, while his upper body needs a lot of work. He can establish position, but-in traffic fighting finds him passive at times.

4) Defensively, he appears to be half a step behind when things get crowded and frenetic in the lane...it seems more of a timing thing than anything else...

5) Given veteran alternatives, Rudy isn't playing the rookies much...oh, and the sun is rising in the East today...

6) His teammates hardly ever pass him the ball, no matter how willing he is to pass it to them, or how well established he is in the post.

Now this is what has been evident in the (very ) few minutes Ming has gotten, and the even fewer toches he's had when on the court. And the conclusions people are making on this board amaze me...

1) He has to 'earn' his playing time in practice...This I really don't get. If anything has shown itself to be his weakness so far, it's that on defense he seems to be a little overwhelmed by the pace...and you don't learn game pace in practice, you only learn that in games. That's why new players ( rookies, Euros, etc.) often talk about that adjustment, not after their first practice, but after their first game. There is no substitute for playing time, especially when it comes to this area.

2) Offensivley he's passive/not ready/whatever...How can we possibly conclude anything about Yao Ming on offense...In five games he's taken 16 shots...or almost exactly 3 shots a game. How the hell can we make any assesment about someone getting so few opportunities? He has shown the skill, we know he's trying to make an adjustment in terms of level of competition, and we're ok with him not getting a chance to develop because he's not shown much...while taking three freaking shots a game !????!????!???

What really bothers me about this seeming complacency for it...Early on, when it became evident that the guards weren't passing him the ball....There were complaints...and people broke down into three camps...Those who automatically support the guards said that Ming needed to develop, that we won, whatever could be said to overlook their obvious ignorance of him while he was on the court...Those who automatically support Yao Ming threw up their hands and said that they had been lied to, that the guards didn't want Yao Ming to succeed, etc...and the rest, those sort of in the middle pointed out that his pt was increasing slightly every game, that he was probably a little tired with the whirlwind schedule he'd had recently, that it was a close game, etc...

But an interesting thing has happened over the last few days...As the Ming issue became about taking a choice between deciding that the guards are selfish players and that Yao Ming wasn't ready, many in the middle have shifted towards supporting the latter, and defending the guards, despite the fact that Yao Ming hasn't done anything wrong in that time. ...His best game was against the Raptors, and it was good enough that it left Toronto media and fans buzzing about him,and wondering why he was sitting so long after playing so well early...Next game, against Seattle, he gets 2 shots, period. Last night, 1 shot. Where exactly is the evidence for concluding that he isn't ready? Who could you evaluate accurately on 3 shots in 2 games!?!?!

The obvious facts, that he gets little playing time, and even less touches when in there, have been glossed over with these sweeping statements about his upper body, or defense, or whatever...all when he's getting 10 less minutes a game than Juaquin Hawkins...less mintes/game than Jason Collier...just 2 minutes more a game than Nachbar...If you guys can make those kinds of snap scouting judgments with 15 minutes and 3 shots a game, and do so enough to overcome the talent that made him the 1st overall pick, and the words of opposing players...( Ex. Antonio Davis said, and I quote, "I don't know why, but they're not really playing him much, and I think that's a good thing for the teams they play against.")..ect. well all I can say is that you are in the wrong line of work. Teams would pay big bucks to have that kind of insight with that little to go on....

Some people want to win now...and I don't agree with that as an ultimate priority, but even if that is the case, how is giving Yao Ming 7 minutes and 1 shot going to do that for sure? If you haven't had the pt/touches to prove anything, can the fact that you haven't proven anything be held as a reason for not giving you the minutes/touches!?!? I find that to be specious reasoning...Give the guy a real chance, and that includes getting him in the game a lot more, and getting him the damn ball when he's in, before coming to the conclusion that you want to...

Opponents, teammates ( Rice) , fans and media have all stated that Yao Ming isn't getting the ball enough, let alone the pt...But many people in here are willing to turn a blind eye to that because A) We won the last game...B) They support Steve and/or Cat no matter what, and couldn't agree with something that can be interpreted as a shot at them...C) Because he hasn't blown them away yet, and their sense of let-down after the hype is leading them to make snap judgments. EIther way, I think it's wrong...

 

I agree with your premise (this is not exactly the 40+ win team with a #1), but I want to point out that MoT and Walt Williams were also contributors.

I've had this discussion before and although Dream was playing extremely well, he (and Mo) also missed a lot of games during that season ending run. Of the last 24 games, Hakeem was a DNP or DNP-IR for 13 of them.

So while Dream may have put up 25 points in one game, he was just as likely to miss the next and contribute nothing.

 

Cato deserves the minutes. They were using 3 forward sets to "small ball". Yao needs time to acclimate. Wait until 2003. Just tell yourself he's injured...

 

Dr of Dunk,

Doesn't it seem like Rudy is trying to get Yao to learn his defenses assignments,
rather than his offensive ones?

I bet Rudy told Yao 'First learn your defense, box out, rebound, block
shots, and DON'T FOUL! If you do, you sit. Once you learn those, we'll
start working on your offense (shots).'

It just doesn't seem like Yao has the "green light" yet. It's not that I want
that. It's just that he had an open shot last night and didn't take it.

It's almost like he's not allowed yet.

 

Yao Ming is new, the Rockets' offense is new, Steve is healthy, Cato is new (isn't he?)--what isn't new? How many new factors do the Rockets have?

Why throw in Ming, who's already confused, into an offensive system that is completely in shambles? Why not wait until the offense begins to jell a little bit, give him the rest and time to get his legs and timing?

You are right, and that no one can make snap judgments with any accuracy at this point. 5 games into the season. Griffin's getting his playing time this season, and he still will when MoT gets back. Ming will get his, too.

BTW, the Raptors suck, Antonio Davis is not on the Rockets' team and has no idea what the team's goals and developing objectives are. He can notice like everyone, including the Rockets, have noticed, that Ming has potential and the ability to contribute now. But the team isn't going anywhere unless they build cohesion--and that's the first immediate priority IMHO. Ming's incorporation is second, but very important, too.

 

Macbeth,


I think that Rudy utmost goal is to make it to the playoffs. For two reasons:
playoff experience for the veterans/and rooks, and as a measuring stick
of how this season went.

Let's say that we make it to the 5th seed in the playoffs. Would you like it better if
we didn't make it, bur rather we gave Yao and Boki more playing time?
It's easy to say that now (Yao NOW, not later!). But come playoff time, you
will be singing a different tune. You will be glad we made it.

I mean, pretend that we didn't get the 1st pick. Let's say that we got a lower
pick. Would we be using that rookie as our leader? No. Our team is pretty good
without Yao. He just makes us better (with time). But getting to the playoffs
is more important. Rudy wants to take out two birds with one stone
(playoffs, and teach Yao).

Think about Griffin! This is his 2nd year! He's getting a lot of minutes.
Last year he didn't. But this year he a big part of the team. Yao will be
in the same boat next year. So, I really don't think we are wasting any of Yao's
time. Yao is only 22.

Yao and Griff are two of my favorite players. I can see the talent brimming in
them the moment they stepped on the court. But as time goes on, Yao
will exceed Jay Williams, Drew Gooden, or even Griffin.

You watch.

Let's make the playoffs and then bring back Yao stronger than ever
(with a training camp under his belt).

 

How does this explain any of Moochie's minutes?

 

Macbeth,

Totally agree with you. What funny is the behavior of the people in the middle. When we lost a game, many of them immediatedly kept on bashing SF, demanding more PT and involvement with Yao. As soon as we won the last game, they immediately praised SF for a great game and it was good to play Yao with very limited time. Comments like "Yao is not ready", needs to "EARN" his minutes, etc., flying all over the board here. Guess what, you gonna see this pendulum swing OVER AND OVER again throughout this seaon---- Yao needs to earn his minutes whenever we beat a crappy team, we need to play him more when we got creamed by another average team. Mark my words.

 

I think you can go either way. If you start him he's going to suck and get better. If you leave him on the bench he'll learn the game from watching and get better. It really doesn't matter. If you are a great player you will still become great.

I'm amazed most by kandi's development. Here is a guy who could do nothing right. He worked his ass off. Now he's the best player on the Clippers. It's all about hard work. Ming will need to work hard whether he's in the game or not. Rudy will not be his failure. Ming will decide his own fate. He has all the talent in the world. All he has to do now is learn those things he never learned like banging and getting physical.

 

True but we were right around a .500 team last year when Franchise was in the game and that is including the ones he had migraines and still played.

 

Not everyone. I was "bashing" Steve even when we won the first 2 games.
ISO, ISO, ISO...

It was the last game that he shared the ball and the teams assists went up!
Ball movement!

 

That's a good point, Ming could get more time against guys he matches up well against, or who don't match up well with him. Dampier is playing well, I agree it's not a disgrace at all. For all the praise we're giving Cato, and rightfully so he is a key player, Dampier has been that much better, which is mind-boggling.

<b>First, I don't believe the gibberish that this is a 40 win team that happened to get the #1 pick. Something happened to this team last year...we lost a crapload of games, and we have yet to show that will change this year. Yes, we're 3-2 but it should be no surprise to anyone that our wins came against crappy team and the two good teams we played beat us.
</b>

Yeah something did happen Jay, coming off a 45 win season over half the roster got injured. That would tend to screw up your chances at improving. This is a 40+ win caliber team, and disregarding that possibility as reason to give Ming more minutes isn't going to help anybody. Last year this team, when mostly healthy minus Mo started off 5-1. Then the injury bug hit. This squad is showing it can beat the lesser squads, and that alone should get them about 30 wins. As for the 2 good teams, losing to Seattle by 7 isn't a bad, and losing to the Pacers, on the road, with Mo, KT, Rice, T-Mo, and with Griffin having a horrid game isn't nothing to sneeze at either. Let me put it this way, I'll take my chances with Rudy trying to win, then to say "We only beat 3 bad teams and lost to 2 good teams, this team isn't capable of win over 40 games and making the playoffs".

 

Keep this in mind, what we lost in Dream being a low post scorer we gained in KT, Mo, and Griffin. Griffin also provides the rebounding and shot-blocking Dream gave us as does a rejuvenated Cato. So actually in respect this team has more low post scorers and a more balanced low post scoring game then they did while Dream was here. That helps neutralize the need for ISO, especially with extra scorers such as Rice, T-Mo and Hawkins. This team is much deeper and far more balanced and athletic then the 45 win team.

 

I agree with DavidS in saying that Rudy probably wants to work on Ming's defense before focussing on the offense. Macbeth seems to be more preoccupied with Ming's scoring but, you know, even if you think he does not get enough shots, what about his defense? It has been awful so far. He has blocked only a couple of shots in his short NBA career, despite being 7-6, and his rebounding has certainly not been eye-pooping so far. He is prone to foul trouble as well. I do think these are things that have to be worked on first before we can talk about offense and extended minutes for the big man. When all that is done, we'd be able to sit back and enjoy the results. So guys, take it easy and have patience. After learning the ropes, Ming will certainly prove to be a franchise player for the Rocks, and with him, we are going to be a very successful basketball team.

 

Here's Newell's quote:

"There's no doubt he has to make a real adjustment," Newell said of Yao Ming. "If everybody has patience and he's a real student of the game, he has to be good. He has obvious strengths any team would like to have. He is a shot-blocker.

"But his game has been structured around the FIBA rules with those angled foul lines. The angled foul lines were put in by FIBA to equalize the game for countries without a lot of (players') size.

"It makes it very difficult to develop as a center under those international rules. It's just too bad he didn't get an opportunity to be with the team from the start of practices so Rudy (Tomjanovich) and his staff would have had the time to work with him. He needs help. But he has a good understanding of the game. I've seen him make wonderful moves. I saw games he had three baskets, all on different moves. He's no stiff, believe me.

"I think they're doing a good job bringing him along slowly. He'll be fine."

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkn/rox/1655697

 

nobody get better "watching". nobody. the only way you get better is by playing. no matter what "ming/no ming" camp you're in, that is the truth.

 

Verse,

True,

But if you are trying to win games, and Ming is not contributing, and clearly is not ready. You do not throw him to the wolves at the risk of the team losing.

Right now Ming is getting destroyed by journeymen players like Jeron James from Seattle.

Ming is lost out there. Rudy will keep running him out there and one day the light bulb will go off and Ming will play longer.

You have to earn it though. If you are not playing well, you sit.

The team comes first.

DaDakota

 

I still don't get how he is 'clearly not ready'...He has gotten very few minutes and fewer shots...His best game came in Toronto, where he looked very good early, and then was ignored...since then he has gotten 3 shots in 2 games...What do we have upon which to base him being clearly not ready? Getting destroyed by journeymen is A) Up for debate, and B) expected until he gets acclimated...it will happen at some point whether that's now or put off till later, and why would later be better for anyone? I know that some later tomorrow everyone in here will be happier with risking some losses to get his feet wet, riiight? Think about it...as we progress we have more and more to lose by playing him and suffering the growing pains...if people are unhappy now, how are they going to be 2 months from now when we're in contention for a playoff spot..or next year when we will have more immediate expectations...Putting it off until 'someday' is the losers move, cause it's myopically short-sighted...There will never be a better time than now...and there will be worse.


And re: the person who said I am pre-occupied with his offense..No, I am using his offense as the only measurable for how much he is being ignored, even in the few minutes he is on the lfloor...I have said, and will re-state that what he needs floor time the most for is to get used to the pace he will face from opposing offenses...and the only way to learn game-pace is to play in games...Practice just isn't the same thing, as any player will attest.