On Joe's Scarborough show this morning they were saying the $14 trillion isn't all we a looking at in the next 10 years. The guy who was saying this put up some number like $54 trillion when taking into all our obligations. I found that hard to believe. So what are the real numbers, any experts? I know The $14 trillion is on future obligations. I guess a better way to start is what is the deficit now. Anything can happen in the future.
I I am not up on all the details but wouldn't be surprised if the actual debt is larger than $14 Trillion. One question I am wondering is that much of the Iraq war spending was counted in the budgetary process so is that factored into the $14 trillion debt number?
no, the $14T is money the federal govt has already borrowed. the $54T (or whatever figure they're using now, i've seen $80T and $110T numbers also) is including future obligations such as social security
To be fair, I'm not sure if those cash flows you are discussing are time discounted---so, for example, in the case of Social Security obligations that come forth around 2030, the time value of money would severely whittle down that initially scary-looking number. Money 30 years in the future is worth nowhere near money in the present.
why would that matter, you make a debt, you pay it in the future. the debt is worth the cash flow, it cancels out. if i owe a dollar in the future, i have to pay that dollar no matter what its worth. just talking about the nominal figures edit: rereading your post maybe i don't understand how ss and medicare obligations are caculated or when they are calculated. so sorry, i think i see what you're saying
That number accounts for the future value of our SS and Medicare obligations. However, it doesn't take into account any of the revenues that will come in to pay for all those things. It's like saying you have a $100,000 annual income but a $250,000 mortgage to be paid over the next 30 years, so you must be in trouble.
I'm not completely sure, but most of that $54 trillion obligation is future payments to social security and medicare recipients.
Yep. Just gonna add to fully explain and clarify my position, that time-wise, money in the present is actionable and can get you more money. Debt obligations in the future may look big and scary, but if you make smart decisions with your current and near-future revenues, it should not be that bad. Time value of money exponentially discounts money in the future, since money in the future is worth a whole lot less than money now (this is where the whole concept of interest rates come into play), and can be repaid with money in the present generating those cash flows in the future. That whole bit is included even if we are only talking about nominal terms. Real terms also includes inflation, which complicates the picture as well. But, all in all, it's just to say that big scary numbers in the future...may not be so big and scary when it actually comes time to pay them.
Wow, America would be like Star Trek Next Generation if we spent 14 trillion on US infrastructure and education.... let alone 54 trillion.
That would be ****ING AWESOME. I totally want a replicator and a phaser and a spaceship and a transporter and a cure for diabetes and a holodeck and ... and ... man, Obama needs to get on that.
Joe is a conservative with a long track record. They like to exaggerate debt numbers because than they can use it as an argument to cut benefits to the lower and middle classes. They especially do this when the Dems are in power. Don't care much about deficits when the Repubs are busting the budget with new wars or massive tax cuts for the wealthy. So you have to be very careful about his numbers and those his guests might mention.
Hey most of us would settle for the $4 trillion spent blowing up stuff in Afghanistan and Iraq and then rebuilding-- the majority in Iraq. Too bad the lobby for the poor and middle class is nothing compared to the "defense" lobby.
The US total debt is separate from SS/Medi obligations It includes state debt, local debt, personal debt, commercial debt and federal debt http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Joe Scarborough wasn't even the one talking about it. I can't remember the guys name but it was someone who isn't conservative.
dylan ratigan just went on some stupid rant quoting $70 trillion and saying that the $4 trillion grand bargain was basically worthless. i'm like dude, you're on a national television show misleading people that the deficit is really $70 trillion. this quy came from cnbc. i'm sure there will be a youtube of it later
and he donks wanna keep spending!!!!!!! who cares, this debt number is not real!!!!! summer of change? lol
So your Republican friends are the ones that won't allow the Bush tax cuts (Which Bush a fellow Republican enacted..) expire. They and their rich buddies would much rather cut all our programs and limit the funding going to things like Education than pay the federal tax. No Democrat or Republican is going to be able to fix this even if they wanted to. They are all rich bastards.
