Boy Scouts: Declare Your Belief in a Higher Power or Else

Oh brother...just another in the long line of people whining when a group expells them. This kid took an oath and, as such if he had a shred of integrity he would have left the group upon learning that his oath was no longer true. I joined a law fraternity in law school...I took an oath. I took another oath when I became the chapter's presiding Justice. It is something I take seriously. A brother was not living up to his oath and I presided over his ouster. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do.

Instead of acting with the integrity he claims to have...he goes and seeks time on CNN to gain publicity to put pressure on the organization to do what he wants. Not right.

 

Refman, if your law fraternity said that they wouldn't allow 6'5" people in it, you wouldn't have a problem with that? Especially after you joined when you were 6'3"?

 

Can somebody give me an example of a "higher power" that isn't a religious one? I'm drawing a blank. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass... I just can't think of one at the moment.

 

I totally see the irony Jeff. But the kid realized a long time ago that his oath was no longer accurate. He did nothing about it. He had been impliedly lying for a couple of years now.

The honorable thing to have done would be to have tendered his resignation upon deciding that his oath was no longer true. He has chosen not to take the high raod.

 

If it said that before I was initiated...then I wouldn't have even applied. I would have been upset...but not to the point of calling CNN.

Had they let me in and then tried to boot me out because of it...well..Graucho Marx comes to mind. "I wouldn't join an organization that would have me as a member."

Fate...the notion of a life force...etc etc

 

Power lines.

 

Don't you know anything, Refman?

Freedom is a one way street.

 

I disagree...it says nothing of a singular power. It seems to speak of the concept of a power higher than ourselves. Buddhism and Taoism could easily fall into that rubric.

It isn't really a regulation. It is a belief held by the Scouts at large...one of the common areas of thought that the Scouts desire. Is it bizarre? Maybe. Are there lots of organizations with requirements that many don't understand? Yep.

I guess that's my point...it is up to BSA what they want their members to swear to. Those that wish to can...and those that don't can find another group.

I dropped out after Cub Scouts...so I have no lifelong love of the Scouts...but I find them to be a good group and I defend their right to seek likeminded membership.

I also support this boy's right to NOT be likeminded. I do NOT support him using CNN to try to strongarm the Scouts.

 

Sometimes it seems that way...but I don't believe that's what Jeff was saying. He's not saying...atheist good, Scouts bad.

I disagree with Jeff on a good many subjects...but he does strive to be fair. 99% of the time...he is fair.

 

They just need to keep all the "God" and "Higher Power" stuff out of an organization like that... it really has no place.

As an atheist, I really don't mind the fact that we have "In God We Trust" on our coins, "Under God" in our pledge, etc. etc. because that's what most people believe. But to exclude someone from the Boy Scouts for that?

Why? Why is not believing in God such a problem? Is it offensive in some way?

 

Those in leadership with the Scouts...a private organization...disagree with you. That is their right. There are many groups that have rules I don't understand or disagree with. It isn't for me to question a private organization...unless they are discriminating on race or another illegal basis.

 

Its been a while since I have been in scouts, and even then I still do not get the grasp the mission of Boy Scouts. If its a religious based organization, then yes, they might have a reason to kick him out.

From what I recall, its not about anything religious.

 

Private organization. Their rules are up to them. If enough people don't like the Scouts, why don't they start an organization of their own?

For what it's worth, Alcoholics Anonymous and the other 12-step programs also require a belief in a "higher power". This doesn't exclude atheists - some people just see some abstract idea as their higher power, or the good side of themselves. The point is to realize there is something out there bigger than you, and perhaps better than your current self. One way or another, you are asked to form a relationship with your higher power.

 

Before this argument continues, can we get proof that the boy called CNN and it wasn't the other way around? I mean that can somewhat change your argument, even if it's a tiny change, it's still a victory for people who have tried arguing with you

 

bleh.

The Boy Scouts are a private organization.

It's still a stupid rule.

 

This isn't a comment about the ongoing discussion, but just an editorial remark.

I would guess that the Boy Scouts motivation for including a simple requirement like the belief in a higher power (lets not fool ourselves either... they are talking about God) is because somehow in their small minds, this assures them of a moral group of people.

What is ridiculous, is that kids just do what their parents tell them to do. If your parents tell you that there is a god, then you believe there is a god. If they tell you they voted for George Bush, then he must be a good guy. If they tell you to brush your teeth every day, then you believe there is a reason to brush your teeth every day. This kid is simply following his parents lead, and he is going to be deprived of something he likes doing because of it.

When he gets into college or whatever he decides to do later in life, he will surely form an opinion of his own. The fact that he and his parents actually have talked about it at least means that he is ahead of 95% of the other people in the world that just do what everyone else does. I think this is a good thing.