I have always been opposed to the old "Move Steve To Shooting Guard" argument, and for the record still am...but Steve is making it harder this year. Maybe it's a forest for the trees thing, but not living in Houston often affords me an oustider perspective on the Rockets which is complemented by my inside perspective provided here, and you all may or may not know that the talk around the league re: the Rox is about 2 things...their incredible collection of young talent, and the degree to which Francis and to a degree Mobley are dominating the ball and playing "selfish"...I am not making this up, I have read it in several 'outside' places...Before you just react and give me the old rolleyes, consider the following... Going into tonight's games Steve is 8th in the league in shots attempted, with 63 in 3 games, or 21 a game, and a few of the guys ahead of him have played more games. At the same time he is tied ( with the likes of Mike Miller, Jason Richardson, Damon Jones and Antoine Walker ) for 29-39th in assists, at 14, or roughly 4.7 a game. There is no doubt that he is putting up All Star numbers ( 29.3 ppg, 9.7 rebs., and 4.7 asts., but are they point guard numbers? This is not a debate on whether Steve is good for the team, but is he best served as a point guard. I am no longer as sure as I once was...What is more, he is averaging more turnovers a game than assists, at 5.0:4.7...Yes, it's early, and I am not suggestin panic moves, or even panic, but in light of the amount of offensive talent surrounding him, with a developing Griffin, Yao Ming, etc., and of course Mobley, is it wise to have the guy starting our offense deciding to shoot a lot more often than he successfully puts a teammate in position to score? I know he has passed a lot more than 14 times, and isn't completely responsible for his teammates missing shots when he passes it to him, but isn't it a measure of a point guard to get his teammates to score? Yes, we're 2-1...but against who? The awful Nuggets, and the Raptors who lost their top two players in the game. The only decent full strength team we've faced blew us out...The problem with shoot-first guards is, by and large, they succeed against poorer teams and get beat by playoff calibre teams. This may very well be only a blip on the screen, but the numbers suggest that there is a trend so far which justifies the questions being asked around the league...Hopefully Steve rectifies this as we progress, and as injured guys come back and rookies develop, but in the meanwhile I have the following questions for those of you who follow the team closely... 1) Do you agree that Steve has so far this season done more to justify the " Should be a shooting guard" argument than ever before? 2) If he continues to play this way, are you at all concerned, not with the level of his play, but the nature of his role? 3) Can a team win consistently, including in the playoffs, with a shoot-first point guard who dominates the ball? 4) Has there ever been a point guard to make the All Star team averaging less than 5 assists a game? 5) Do you feel he has been playing selfish, or should we chalk the talk up to 'Houston-hating' yet again? Let me repeat, I know it's early, I have little doubt it's probably an anomally so far, but I am asking the questions about A) The play so far, and B) The What If perspective about the rest of the season. It was an early stretch of jacking up shots a few years back that earned Marbury the selfish tag, and he has always averaged more assists than Steve, and Steve is putting up remarkably similar numbers to what Iverson was just before thay shifted him the the 2...Won't happen here, for several reasons, and I am by no means bashing Steve, who has been playing great, in a way, but has it been the play of a great point guard, or that of a great player? How and what he does against our next few quality opponents will be pretty telling...
Yes he is dominating the ball.....but.....the Rockets need to get healthy before we get on SF too much. Heck, as long as they are winning, that is all that matters. DD
But DD...dont you feel that the winning had something to do with the opponents? Do you fell that, IF it continues, it's a problem?
Bring this up again after about twenty games; let's see where the Rockets are then. If Frances has not progressed in the area of decisions, passing, assists, etc., then something needs to happen (unless the team is 22-1) in which case the board will be so ecstatic that no one will be interested. The big question is, what about Mobley who you just can't put on the bench, he is too good.
MacBeth, I have seen signs of him passing the ball to set up teamates. I have also seen him taking most of his shots within the flow. He is the star and leader, and is now starting to act like it. Could he be a better passer, sure...and he will be.... However, it is more important to win. And the Rocks are 2-1.....tomorrows game should be more telling. DD
1.) No. If you mean by benching/trading Mobes or starting Mooch, then no, I don't think Francis should be moved to sg. If you mean he plays more of a sg role on offense ala Bibby/Bobby Jackson, well then yeah, if it works. 2.) Yes. If he continues to have to score this many points it means he has little help offensively imo. I would really really like frontcourt production this year aside from the usual Kenny 3.) Yes, if he has frontcourt help. 4.) Doubt it. 5.) I chalk it up so far to not much help and his teamates not finishing plays(whether it be dunks, shots, or fumbling passes). Gets frustrated and tries to take the game over. If we have a good frountcourt I could care less whether we have an "ideal" pg or just 2 sgs. Really what I would like to see in the future is an offense where Stevie gets his, and the halfcourt offense is run through Ming and his passing like Vlade and Sabonis. Seems like it'll be a while before the team is changed that drastically tho.
I don't really care whether he fits the classic point guard mold or not. What I would like to see is the entire team pass the ball more on offense because passing opens up better percentrage shots. Which is best for the team.
1) Do you agree that Steve has so far this season done more to justify the " Should be a shooting guard" argument than ever before? So far, yes. the last two preseason games and the first three regular season games give me reason to...almost...not quite yet...give up on the Steve Francis point guard experiment. 2) If he continues to play this way, are you at all concerned, not with the level of his play, but the nature of his role? If he continues to play this way and there is a negative effect in terms of wins and losses, then yes, Im concerned with the nature of his role. 3) Can a team win consistently, including in the playoffs, with a shoot-first point guard who dominates the ball? Never been done before. The closest resemblance to a team that won consistently with a shoot-first point guard leading the way would be the Detroit Pistons lead by Isiah Thomas. Thats a pretty far fetched comparison though because Isiah Thomas averaged about 10 asissts and I dont think he was nearly as turnover prone as Francis. 5) Do you feel he has been playing selfish, or should we chalk the talk up to 'Houston-hating' yet again? Selfish, maybe. Its much easier to critique Steves mistakes from my homeboy perspective, but It's hard not to recognize Steve ignoring the picker on the pick and roll, and its even more difficult to ignore Steve, as Calvin Murphy screamed 'commit a cardinal sin in basketball by ignoring Ming when Ming calls for the ball in the post.' Hopefully it has less to do with selfishness and more to do with a lack of trust in his teamates.
MacBeth, good topic. I am still not sure. Hopefully we can come back to this in a few weeks. Then, I think the answer will become more clear.
I don't see anyone complaining when Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, Malone, Iverson and other great players avg in the high 20th to low 30th.
No. The player defines the position, not the position defines the player. SG or PG has nothing to do with it. Positions are only for average players. But great players, and Steve is a great player in talent, redefine the position. It's about being a great BASKETBALL PLAYER! Knowning yourself, the game, and your teammates. No. As long as he improves by getting his team involved. Yes, we can win with that type of guard. See Isiah Thomas. He could score 50. But didn't have to. Once Steve starts trusting his teammates he wont care how many points he gets. He better not average 5 assist a game. That will be hurting his team. He's learning. There has been improvements. We'll see how the season progresses.
All that matters is a win. LIke mentioned above. Once the other players come back like MoT, Rice, there will be more scorers. No worries right now. we are above .500 and that alone makes me happy right now.
Point guard, smoint guard. It seems to me that the Bulls had no tue "point guard". Ron ? was a converted top scoring guard, Jordan wasn't exactly Stockton or Kidd, neither was Steve Kerr or Scottie Pippen. Neither Kobe nor anyone else on the Lakers is Stockton or Kidd. We can always trade for a conventional point guard if we need one down the line. Tito might turn into one. Steve can learn to feed Ming and Griffin in the post, which will get his assist numbers up to respectable, for those interested in numbers. Of course, Steve could always be a good "scoring guard," just like Jordan could be a good "point guard".
If you are going to look at assist numbers, take a close look at our team as well. I know this has been said before, but the only classic assist-completers on our team that have played so far this year are Hawkins, Cuttino, and and Boki. Even Cuttino will get the ball and then create his own shot most of the time. For right now, I'm content with Steve attracting the attention of the defense and making scoring easier for his teammates, whether that leads to assists or not. I believe that when MoT and Rice come back that will add at least 1 assist per game to Steve, and as his chemistry with Yao improves, they will give each other at least one assist per game. That makes 8 assists per game, and I think that will make everyone happy.
An outsiders perspective ??? Lets stop here...Have you seen a Rocket game this year, are you making this up. If you dont have NBA league pass, you cant get these games out of state.....I too live outside of Houston..as to the rumors, ..havent heard them....I do live in an NBA city though..Steve and Cat are highly respected here.......
I know in the Denver game, they were playing more team ball than before. It's obvious that team ball was new to them, because there were a lot of turnovers. But they did seem to be trying, a lot of the time. There were of course a few ill advised shots, but it seemed like they were making earlier passes, and getting some ball movement or attempts. If they get frustrated with turnovers and abandon the offense then maybe things will have to change, but I want to see if they can keep it up and become more comfortable with it.
DaDa, Name one time since Steve came to this team that they have had a SF that did not just stand at the 3 pt line! The injury excuses are tired. When Glen is in, he stands around, same with TMo, and Nachbar. Last year, Wizzard... same, Langhi... same. Before that, Bullard... same. It is not the people playing the 3 its the people playing the 1. If the team had slashers they would be useless as they would have no one to hit them while slashing. A PG, and Steve at the 2 (NOT HANDLING THE BALL) is what will turn this team around.
Yes, I have seen 2 of the three games so far ( 1 live, 1 td).. I tend not to make stuff up, thank you very much.
When KT was playing the SF this preaseason, there was more variety. I think a lot of it depends on the SF. Actually now that I think about it, during the Denver game they would pass early to Mobely. A pick would be set, and then he would pass it to Nachbar who was moving well without the ball. Most of his shots came from the 3pt. line, but there was other action that involved the SF.
