To get back to the Topic I`d trade the Wizard for Christian Laettner. I really don`t want to see him in a Rockets uni, but I definitely like to have his contract instead of Williams`. This could free about 6.5 off the cap next year and I believe that is more valuable than having Walt one more season. It would make sense for Detroit as well as they could get a replacement at the 3 + about 2.5 extra millions to spend on a 4 or 5 this year (maybe Taylor). I even don`t think Laettner would disturb our young squad too much, as his role should be to warm the bench after starting the first 20 games. He would be replaced by Collier, Cato or Thomas. Who would be our starting 3? Shandon against smaller SFs Carlos or Kenny against the bigger ones What do you think?
once again i say Walt stinks. He does not fit our plan exactly for the reason that he is slow. We need a faster player at sf, who can also shoot the three when we need it. Is anybody not listening? The reason Walt came on at the end was because he realized he is going to be traded. So now is the time to trade him, because the memory of him hitting the threes is still fresh on the memmories of other teams. When the season begins he is going to be laid back and not care cuz he's not on the trade block. I say TRADE WALT. ------------------
To all you walt fans, once again I tell you the rocks did not begin to win at the end b/c of walt. What did Walt do? HIT A BUNCH OF THREES. Who says Drew can't do this? And who says walt will do the same thing? Walt stinks and now is the best time to trade him. We neeed money freed up for next year when we can pick up someone like WEBBBBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! hey can someone tell me when Walt's contract will be run out. ------------------
Well, Logical argument will tell you that Walt was teh differing factor over the last 20 games and his improved play was the reason the Rockets were winning those games. But, as already pointed out, everybody can go on hot streaks. TO assume Walt just started playing well because he finally get accustomed to the system is analagous to assuming LAnghi will be a better replacement. THese are things you just cant predict. I think that Walt was just on a hot streak, in part probably because he was playing with more of a Im gonna go out there and see what I can do attitude because he was just spending a lot of time on the bench anyway. But I dont think it will last. He might have a more consistent season, but not one of the caliber he was at at the very end. ID trade him if possible also, mainly becuase he is being paid too much. HE is not a starter but is getting starter dollars. One day, if we hope to win it all, we will definitely need an upgrade over Walt at the 3 and I dont want to be paying abench player that kind of money. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
You guys are missing the point. You're fine with the Rockets offering Croshere a 6 million dollar contract because of the finals. He absolutely sucked during the regular season. So either be consistent and say 'they're both coming into their own' or be consistent and say 'too little too late'. At least Walt has alot more history on his side. He played really well in an established offense in Toronto and in Portland (although in a lesser role). He sufferred when he came to Houston because Rudy played an adversity lineup -- in which he threw ingredients together to determine what would happen. Guess what, Walt's performance was positively correlated with the stability of the starting lineup. Hmmm.... Incidentally, I hope no Rockets become angry when they watch RudyT throw out 3 guard lineups in Sydney that he became comfortable with last year on the Rockets' time. ------------------ The ClutchCity 500. [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited July 18, 2000).]
Walt didnt play well in the finals. He played well during the last 20 games of the regular season. That is a HUGE difference. They are perhaps similarly talented as of now, but Croshere has much more potential, and we all know these days people get rich off potential. Besides, Im not willing to pay roshere 6 million a year, I say the 4.1 league average sounds about right. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
But the Rockets won't be in the finals anytime soon. I'm not sure I'm explaining my pov very well. RudyT drastically advanced the development of this team by disavowing playoff concerns and determining playing styles, granting playing time and determining matchup advantages. This was not in anyway shape or form a set offense. It was a learning experience for Steve, Rudy and everyone else on the team. The Pacers were a playoff team all year last year. I'm sure their lineup changed infrequently, and due to injury... if at all. Rudy T dilly-dallied with every lineup he could muster merely to experiment with chemistry, etc. Austin Croshere had the opportunity to find his niche the entire season in a set offense. He didn't do it the first 82 games. He didn't do it the first 3 series. He did it 6 games out of over a 100 games. Walt Williams had adversity on his side. His shot was inconsistent when the DIT wasn't garnering open looks (i.e. single coverage on Dream). Then, he was benched during the Bullard days, and was used sparingly. It was no coincidence that as Walt's shot came back, RudyT had also determined what the best team on the floor looked like. I have the utmost confidence in Langhi's abilities... but I have better confidence in RudyT's to put a good product on the floor. He did, and Walt's performance in that was the best shooting in the league in the last 20 games. ------------------ The ClutchCity 500.
I think that you have to have shooters other than your guards, to be honest. Drew and Bullard can shoot, yes... but Walt drives much better than Bullard, and he's much taller than Drew. Nearly any PG can shoot the 3... it's important to have another option. The point is this: our winning streak coincided with the Wizard's improved play. You can't deny that. Walt became an offensive option... and the court opened up. ------------------
I find it all a little bit sad, that every off-season there is one guy that needs to be traded or needs to be benched, or need to have this done. Last season it was Charles because he was hurting the team, this time its Walts turn. It has been said by someone before, but I am also looking forward to next season, even with the current lineup. We don't need to trade Walt (I'm not going to rehash all the arguement, but my stand is that WW is good), adding Croshere would be good, but it is my belief that trading WW would be a mistake by the Rocks m'gmt. Granted its not the case that WW is an integral part of the team (as much as Steve is, but who is?) but he is (metaphorically speaking) that little cog that helps the whole machine run smoothly. I don't have any inside info, or "sources", but I reckon WW will have a good, consistent season. Not as good as the last 20 games, nor as bad as the first 62, but somewhere in between. P.S To answer the original question, I wouldn't trade Walt for anyone, unless a clearly better player was being offered. [This message has been edited by Chuck04 (edited July 18, 2000).]
To answer the original question, "anyone with a 1-year contract that matches." Walt isn't terrible, but he isn't fast, isn't quick, and isn't a well-rounded player. There is absolutely no reason in 2001 he should have the biggest salary cap eating slot on the WHOLE roster. It is hard to believe persons feel good about Francis, SA and Walt in the 3 small positions, but not Franics, Mobley & SA. There is very little rebounding difference between these sets of players, and at least the former creates a lot of match-up problems on offense and (potentially) defense (for the oppinent) because of quickness. I am not for starting Mobley (I would rather start someone bigger WITH a relatively well-rounded game like Croshere), but I would much rather pencil him as a future starter over Walt Williams or any other current Rocket other than Francis, Shandon and Cato. Yes our overall size isn't good with Mobley, but Walt doesn't help matters because he doesn't rebound much nor lock down on defense anyway. There is good reason for the high interest in Mobley around the league, and little interest in Walt. One is Walt's contract, but the larger reasons are because Mobley can create offense by himself and is an athletic player (thus the potential for being a very good defender). For the life of me I can't see how people can get exicited about Williams, Collier, or Langhi, but be lackluster about Mobley. This guy was thee 10th best SG in the west last year, was our 3rd best player, and would be worth a late lottery pick. Do ya'll realize hoy many even late lottery picks have come our way recently, not many. I guess there thinking "system" fit, the rest of the league certainly isn't in that box and realize the value of Mobley. You are much better playing your best players as much as possible, even if you have to sometime play guys out of position, than play worse players simply because they fit a system or fit a "height standard" for a position. I don't have anything against Walt, he is just way too over priced for the level of all-around play he can contribute. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited July 18, 2000).]
Achebe, you probably got it, but to clarify I do mean by 2001 is when Dream's contract is over (2001-2002 season).
sir scar, I was just taking advantage of the quote to have some fun w/ Dream. ------------------ The ClutchCity 500.
Sir Scarjaval: Nobody's saying Walt is more valuable than Mobley. I am saying, that he's a better starter than Mobley. Mobley's value is in scoring quickly.... this is more advantageous if he comes in a bit later in the game. As long as he gets his minutes, why do you care? ------------------
Austin Croshere also had adversity. Heck, hes had adversity during his whole NBA career so far. This is the first year people really started to beleive in him. THe first year he has got significant minutes. He was playing for a team with a new leader in Jalen Rose and other bonafide solid players in Miller, Davis, and occasionlly (very occasionaly!) SMits. Croshere was a bench player coming into his own and forcing people to start to respect him. Sure Rudy was tinkering with the lineup, but RUdy didnt just do that to see what he liked the best. If he had found something that worked at first, quite obivously he would have stuck with it. But Walt didnt perform at first. He didnt perform all season. It wasnt till the last 20 games that he performed, and not because of consistency, cause Rudy was still tinkering with the lineup before that. THe consistency does NOT lead to Walkts improved play. Rather, it was walts improved play that led to the consistency. I just doubt he can play like that over an 82 game season. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
Whats up with this pre-concieved notion that every player the Rockets trade for, sign, draft etc. has to be a track and field olympian who has athleticism oozing out his body? Sure, we want to have a fast-break, high-flying, high-octane, fast breaking team that can play with that extra pizzaz. There is always some group of fans that complain when the Rockets acquire a player who's greatest strength isn't running the break or leaping like he's half man, half amazing. When Collier and Langhi were drafted, moans and groans were heard everywhere as they were labelled as Matt Bullard clones who basically just shoot. I guess a lot of us are still having nightmares about our slow-motion, rather boring post-up system of yesteryear, and want to get rid of everyone who would fit in that system to erase any trace of it. But, the fact is, we need to diversify our talent in order to be a serious contender. I'm not saying we should keep Walt Williams for that reason (though I feel we should keep him), but in general, we need to accept the fact that not everyone play the Rocks pick up is going to be a athletic freak. Francis, Mobely, Cato, Anderson are eventually going to grow old and be less inclined to rely on their athletic ability, and more on a systematic system, that can blend their various fast-break skills with the half-court game. Everyone loves all-round players, but realistically we're not going to have 12 multi-dimensional players, but rather a bunch of one or two dimensional role players combined to work as a team or system, with a couple of all-round stars. With players like Walt, Collier and Dream, we always have that option of going to an alternate system when our gazelles are having trouble. We are fortunate that our stud backcourt is capable of playing the half-court game, as it would give our opponents a tougher time to adapt to our style and key in on our weakness. Walt, in my opinion, is not one dimensional. Yes, he's slow and his defense makes Glen Rice look like Scottie Pippen, but he brings other things to the table besides shooting. He is an above average ball-handler for his position, which allows him to overcome his lack of footspeed and occasionally drive by opponents to complement his shooting game. Also, he has good court vision and can find the open man with his natural bball instincts, and he posseses a deadly mid-range jumper. Sure, he isn't no Grant Hill, but he does have his moments. So before I end this dreadfully long post, let me just reiterate that the Wizard is a good guy who gets along with his teammates, and would be an ideal vet bench player during our winning years from 2001-07. And besides, he isn't even close to being the most overpaid player in the league, that feat belongs to Big Country. Azim da Dream ------------------ We don't live for the destination. We live for the journey.
Haven, I guess I am not that concerned about next year, and have bigger plans in mind down the line that likely would include Cuttino, but not Walt. If you don't play SA at the 3, I agree Walt is the best SF we have at the moment , but I have to think we would need to do better than Walt at the SF in a couple of years to be a contender. And his contract hurts the potential to get more of an impact 3 or 4, or at least better ones than we have now. I hope it doesn't come down to this (we keep Cat as 6th man and have an all-around and bigger 3 (e.g., Croshere) to accompany SA at the 2), but if we don;t have such an option I just have little doubt in 2-3 years manning the small positions with Stevie, Cat and SA would provide a stronger line-up than Stevie, SA and Walt--regardless of who mans the 4 & 5. I am not that concerned with next years record, I am far more concerned with setting up the table for the years thereafter. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited July 19, 2000).]
If Cuttino stays, then I might consider trading him for a player with one year left on their contract. And that's only at midseason (gotta make sure the last 20 games of last season wasn't a fluke). If Cuttino leaves, I would not trade him. ------------------
Now what do all you walt williams fans have to say. It's time to trade him now. Know why? CUZ WE GOT DAN THE MAN. i started this thread b4 the revue thinkin that dan would be some kind of improvement over walt. We need to trade walt b/c we have to give more playin time to dan cuz he's so damn awesome. I dont give a **** wat n e 1 else thinks but i ll take dan over walt n e day of the week. And for those who did not watch the revue dan has something special in store for yall. ------------------
