From espn.com article about Pistol Pete. "For him to come along and do some of the things he did for a white boy was kind of shocking,'' said Silas, who played against Maravich during the 1970s, when Maravich was with the old New Orleans Jazz. "He kind of played like he was on a playground all the time. He was so great, the ball seemed to be on a string every time he had it. He was a great shooter.'' I can't believe he got away with saying this. This like me Rudy T saying "Silas is a good coach for a black guy."
But it was TRUE . Actually, lots of guys said that about Pete. He just took it as a complement. Wilt Chamberlain used to rave about how good he was: "I'll tell you, black guys just have 'flair' that white guys don't have. The only white guy I ever saw with 'flair' was Pete Maravich. I don't know where he got his, but he damn sure had it."
Sigh, we see this all the time, the good 'ole "double standard." Just like how Stewart Scott on ESPN said that Dwight Stone was fast for a "white guy" a few weeks back when he caught up with Tomlinson on a run to make a great block. If a WHITE announcer said that Michael Vick made a great read on a defense with a throw and then said that he was "pretty smart for a black guy" that guy would be fired! But in our society it seems it is acceptable for black people to make those comments whereas white people can't. My ONLY complaint is the double standard. Either NO ONE makes those comments or EVERYONE makes the comments. I don't care either way, just be consistant! Chris
Duece, my vote would be that everyone make those statements, and everyone add a little context to each situation and measure the intent behind the words. tolerance is much MUCH better than Political Correctness. Double standard...who really cares? Does it upset people that the Michael Vick comment you suggest would be taken as racial superiority in intellect, whereas the Pete Maravich comment is taken as superiority in bball creativity and flash. remember, white people create the double standard just as much as any other race. Political Correctness is as much a white phenomenon as anything. We don't like to hear that we are stiffs with no rhyme or rhythm ("don't say that about whites"), and we don't like to be accused as a race of still harboring racial stereotypes to the put of partaking in PC ("don't say that about minorities"). screw political correctness. It is for the tiny brains don't try to understand language context, because they never get out of the house to say hi to their neighbors.
HP, I agree with your take on PC, I don't like it at all!! But at the same token getting back to me position in the above therad, I would rather have everyone be PC than have a double standard. I just don't like how there is a double standard in broadcasting with the way these people report things. Chris
that's easy to say when u're not on the receiving end of a couple hundred years of biased abuse (anglo middle age male) it doesn't matter if it's a double standard, white male society is still long overdue for the humility they should suffer and respect it should be giving for the way blacks and women have been treated. it's "ok" for the black guy to call someone a white boy because there's no history there. it's a little retribution without asking u to let ur family be whipped, women raped, and treated like outright lower life primates (eye for eye justice). say someone is good for a black man encites a history that isn't far enough out of our past; you still have scars of it walking around everywhere. be a little more vicarious here. that is such an white boy comment
the comparisons you guys are drawing is first of all ridiculous. Saying a guy had style for a white boy can't be equated with he's a good coach for a black guy. One is playful, the other is degrading. One implies white guys back then didn't play with style which is true, the other implies that blacks can't coach basketball, which is not true. so before screming double standards and political correctness, try actually bringing something up of substance. if someone said, That Tiger Woods is an amazing golfer, especially considering he is black (or half black). I think that's equivalent to the Pete Marivich line. I don't see anything wrong with either one. Considering even now you still hardly see minorities on a golf course in a sport that is predominantly black, it's is impressive that the greatest golfer ever is black. But the fact that many white Americans will see a double standard in calling Jason William "white chocolate" just goes to show how poorly they understand what racism actually is. Racism is about degradation. Anything else is just PC BS.
I agree with NewYorker's view. The reference could be offensive, but the connotation was playful. It wasn't supposed to be degrading, and only an overreaction could make it as such. Issues like these with the hyper PC makes dialog about race hush hush and under the table. It clouds the sensitive issue of race and diversity with disinformation, and it brings the issue to the middle of nowhere.
"Did someone ask for a white boy with flair?" I mean, come on. Fluidity and style comes in all colors:
crossover, I have no idea what's up your ass, but if you could understand context, you'd see I'm saying that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Pete Maravich statement, or any other statement ("middle age anglo") someone like you needs to purge from you system. By the way, just say middle-age white boy. go for it! It is no biggie. I had plenty of it in basketball and the army and on the streets to have tolerance for it. But, do you even have a clue how to interpret what I said in my post?? btw: I believe the smartest people who I've ever met and who I've ever studied are blacks. I've learned more about life and about living from my black friends and heros. And yes, I consider it a cultural thing. It goes way beyond saying, "some of my best friends are black." Now NewYorker is talking about context and intent, crossover, just like I said. It is the context and intent that makes it derogatory in one case and not another, thus not a double standard. It is the tiny brains of Political Correctness culture who see only "white" and only "black" and call them the same. They see only the words, but not the contrast in passion and intent behind those words. Get my point now. I actually stated your case. But you know. You're too blind to the topic you won't stop to listen to other voices. You are actually getting in the middle of a conversation without considering the context and intent. I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Duece, who stated his desire to allow both comments to be said or neither to be said, but no double standard. My answer was to somewhat accept that but to say in my opening line that you still have to consider context and intent. To be careful not to offend and just flat out say the context of Vick and Maravich are not the same, I answered it with a Rhetorical Question. as in, <blockquote>Does it upset people that the Michael Vick comment you suggest would be taken as racial superiority in intellect, whereas the Pete Maravich comment is taken as superiority in bball creativity and flash?</blockquote> Do you not see the sarcasm? I'm comparing intellect to dribbling tricks and asking if they upset anyone. One statement shows superiority in intellect (I never heard a black QB called smart but just low football IQ) and the other is about creativity and flash with a basketball (a game). I don't think they are the same, but I thought it best left unanswered, because I'd offend couch potato Joes, Monday Morning Quarterbacks, White Men Can't Jump dreamers who know they could never be as cool as Dr J with a basketball, but don't like hearing the stereotype that white man can't jump, jive or jiggy. Another way to look at it is, if I laugh at you for being dumb based on racial stereotype versus laughing at me for being a stiff who can't ball based on a racial stereotype...are they the same? my point crossover is no it is not a double standard. Even beside that fact, white men who cry can stand a little tolerance and blacks like you could, too. Your cathartic purging of individual frustration (which I could never fully comprehend) is valid retribution, but PC retribution (as you described it) is neither a cultural nor an individual solution. I know that much. <blockquote><hr>Originally posted by Invisible Fan Issues like these with the hyper PC makes dialog about race hush hush and under the table. It clouds the sensitive issue of race and diversity with disinformation, and it brings the issue to the middle of nowhere. <hr></blockquote> Exactly. It is healthier to allow these comments and discuss race than to pull the PC card and say...no no...you can't say that. Don't talk about race. How can we ever learn more about each culture and race with PC tribunals lynching people as examples so we can feel satisfied that we are eradicating it....yeah right. It's going to go away by not talking about it.
I had to add this photo before some white boy with no jump, jive or jiggy says they are hurt by those words. <img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_jeff_foster.jpg"> Ooooh, we can jump!! Now we need some Pistol Pete Jiggy photos. And a picture of a jive talking cool white man who can get the babes and the money like Bill Clinton...lol.
Sorry, heypartner. I get your point, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but that photo is so smooth looking that I'm wondering if he survived the play! By the way, Foster is 6' 11" and he's not especially high. Also, what is with this Eddie Munster look that continues to poison the league? Find a Brent Barry photo -- that might better illustrate what you want. I played pick up ball with him in college, and that guy has really got springs and style, big time. Nonethless, I will continue to post photos of Billy Paultz and Mokeski.
who cares how high he is, he jumped over his defender. Look where his legs are and look what the black dude is left looking at.
Everyone in this thread should have listened to the Dan Patrick show on ESPN radio Wednesday 10/30. He discussed this very issue. And it would do injustice to the issue for me to recap it. I must say that without understanding the context of Pistol Pete and that era of basketball and the Hawks that quit the team and all of this stuff, y'all won't know jack. I don't think the comment is racist. Find the 10 minute discussion on the radio show. Then make a judgement.
First, not many people in this thread have any problem with the Silas quote. Or do you want us to have a problem with it? Recommend a reference, (thanks!), but I don't think you should smugly tell us we're ignorant until we see some 10-minute made-for-sports-TV masterpiece. I mean when did Dan Patrick become the next Edward Said?
A. I wasn't talking to you. B. I have no idea what you are saying in this discombobulated mass of text...I don't even know if you are agreeing with me or not...frankly I don't care. It's such a strange world. Should John Rocker be villified for the comments he made? Is he a racist? Who really knows for sure, but the comments he made thinking they were in confidence sure does make it seem he thinks whites are better then minorities and he looks down on others (degradation). Is what Fuzzy Zeller said about Tiger Woods...something along the lines "I guess they'll serve collard green next year at Masters" a racist thing to say. You know, I don't think so. It might have been a stupid thing, but it just doesn't strike me as derogatory. This is something that transcends sports. I'll just say that people have the freedom to say what they want, and people have the freedom to react to what those people say, and others have a right to react to what they say. And I say, people need to actually know what racism is before they speak out. And sometimes, even minorities overreact - and that's a shame because it distracts from the real problems. But in general, the guy who posted the original message just has no clue what racism is.
When you hear idiotic remarks like Fuzzy Zeller's, sometimes you wonder what he honestly thinks on the inside. The media reaction or blitz to his remarks made him more of a scapegoat of a greater issue. It was a form of witchhunt in trying to expose those old white men's bigotry to this new up and coming sensation... Remarks like the one in the topic just reminds us and sometimes forces people to wonder too much of whether racism and bigotry is in the back of the quoter's mind. We've created an atmosphere where the word "racism" is some evil boogeyman that mothers threaten their children with. When you hear an offensive remark, it's a staging point into wondering what kind of person the speaker is. The part that bugs me the most is trying to shut him up and letting the thoughts and assumptions run loose. Ignorance can be solved. Hatred and bigotry is a harder issue to takle with. Yet with mainstream PC, we let ignorance fester and flourish.
