I think they just wanted a coach that's on the same page with them, it would make it easier for them to make the moves they want, which could include "win now" players or not. Who knows. They already know what system works with these guys. They could get a coach who uses something similar offensively, maybe stresses defense more, sees eye to eye with them, and will earn a lot less. Isn't that basically what Morey does with players, try to replace them with younger and cheaper, but similar options? Les has never really settled for "rebuilding" like this, unless he had no choice due to injuries. He has an itch to make money and you need to win to do that.
1) I really dont think saving 3 or 4M on a coach had much to do with it. 2) I agree with the part about being on the same page. The question is: What does that page say? 3) My statement about winning later was meant to reflect the situation out of necessity, not choice. Winning now could really only happen if a star or 2 dropped in our lap. $) Winning and money do have a relationship. But a team trapped in long term mediocrity is going to drain the resources and fan base eventually. If sacrificing 2 or 3 years through good drafting and trading creates a stable and sustainable playoff team. The money will be there.
I had something on Hill, but deleted it as the text, like Hill, is pretty much a waste of space. Hill is less valuable than Thabeet. He has less upside and has unfortunately played such that both his potential and likelihood of reaching it have plummetted.
IDK about that. I think he has potential and I would definitely consider him along with Lowry and Martin generally untouchable. But I don't think he has Super Star Potential. Just as I don't buy this Super Star/All Star crap with TWill. Name a current NBA Super Star since Kobe Bryant that wasn't starting consistently on his team by his second NBA Season? Super Stars are born, All Stars are deceloped. I think Pat Pat will be Paul Milsap at worst, David West at absolute best. Borderline All Star/Solid Starter, 18/9, maybe 1.5-2 blocks a night. I think he will give us that for a good 6-7 years as a starter But super star at his position to me screams 26/13, and I love him as much as the next guy but that aint him.
The new NBA contract will determine our strategy, but, in the interim, there are several factors that must be considered. When trading for a superstar, the contracts exchanged must balance unless one team has serious cap space to create an exception (we don't). Budinger and Lee are the ultimate moneyball contracts -- high production for very little outlay. Both of their contracts together don't even total $3M. Morey has low-balled so many players we will need to send a package of four or five players to equal superstar money -- or sacrifice Scola and Martin. Even Lowry's contract is only in the MLE range. In other words, Morey's assets are not attractive enough to acquire a superstar by trade and the team is insufficient to attract one through free agency. Our only prayer is to be so bad next year that we get a choice pick (#1 - #4) the following summer. Mediocrity is a killer.
I just can't figure out who would trade for scola and provide good value back. I tried, but don't see it. i agree, the 2012 draft looms large. That's why i'd liquidate Lee/Budd into a mid first rounder if at all possible, and then combine that with our other 2 first rounders to move up as high as possible. Implicit in what I've proposed as Morey's plan is that we will likely lose some games because of the effort to develop the likes of Twill and Thabeet, which boosts our lottery status. Morey can't say we're going to tank but can say we're out to develop young players to improve our future.
Keeping yao at a relatively cheap price is exactly what Morey intends to do. Remember, he keeps talking about taking good "bets" to improve the talent on the team. IMO, bringing back yao is smart because if he has anything left, he can be parlayed into a meaningful pick in the 2012 draft by dealing him to a contender. i cannot see how Morey thinks we can win now in any meaningful way. If he does, he is a pathological liar.
This is simple truth. If Morey can’t trade for CP3 or Howard in summer, mind of Morey should say to tank. Trade Martin and Luis Scola is obvious way, but I think there is simpler way. Play Thabeet as starting center and Hill as backup.
26/13???? The highest Points this season was 27.7! No Power forward averaged 26 points a game .. . Amara is close at 25. The next is Dirk and he is at 23. 1 - Kevin Durant, SF - 27.7 2 - LeBron James, SF - 26.7 3 - Carmelo Anthony, SF - 25.6 4 - Dwyane Wade, SG - 25.5 5 - Kobe Bryant, SG - 25.3 6 - Amare Stoudemire, PF - 25.3 7 - Derrick Rose, PG C - 25.0 So I think the 22~23 mark should be the Bench Mark Kevin Love and Zach Randolf averaged 20 13 rebounds a game? The top rebounder was 15 a game 1 - Kevin Love, PF - 15.2 2 - Dwight Howard, C - 14.1 3 - Zach Randolph, PF - 12.2 4 - Blake Griffin, PF - 12.1 5 - Kris Humphries, PF - 10.4 6 - Pau Gasol, PF - 10.2 I honestly can see Pat as being in the Love, Randolph, Griffin area of things. I think with a little seasoning. He won't be as FLASHY but I think he can get the job done! This year in 16 minutes a game - 6 pt and 4 rbs. I don't think in 32 minutes he would simply be 12 and 8. Give him a season or two . . . . Rocket River
What about him says Super Star? I think he will be a really good player, but what has he shown yet that has you thinking this?
I agree the tank/high pick route is the fastest. Budd and Lee cannot net you a star. But there are intermediate steps that can and should be taken, like parlaying Budd and Lee into desirable chips. What if CP3 or Howard is available by trade and next year? What if Twill plays 20-25 mpg with quality defense and begins flashing all star spurts of play. And Thabeet shows he has a clue and can stay on the floor for 20mpg, with 8 ppg, 9 rpg, and 2bpg. And Lowry takes a step forward, which is no stretch at all. You have three young players showing upward trajectory, with real upside, at key positions. Now your "godfather" offer consists of: - Young Lowry near all star status - Young TWill with all star flashes - Young Thabeet with an upward trajectory at center, the most precious commodity of all - Possibly 3 first round picks in 2012. Is this likely to all come to fruition? Perhaps not. But it sure is possible. If this comes to fruition, New Orleans arguably netted more for CP3 than Denver did for Melo. The point of this thread is to try to think through what Morey is thinking, and also agree or disagree if you like.
At this point, we have 2 1/2 playmakers on this team, Lowry, TWill, and Lee/Dragic. Lee/Dragic get the half. They make plays off their scoring, Dragic more so than Lee at this point. So, in my mind, barring a trade, TWill should come off the bench next season when Lowry goes off. And he should be given the opportunity to handle the ball and make plays and grow from there. This roster as currently designed needs a serious center and a small forward. How are we going to get them? Well, if the small forward and/or center is not a superstar, then we're not trading Lowry, Martin, or Patterson for them. You've already heard Morey say it. Those are his favorites. Translated, that is the base of our team. We're not trading the base unless we are getting a superstar back. That means that everyone else is expendable in a move for a center and/or small forward. Scola/Hill/Thabeet/Miller/Bud/TWill/Dragic/Lee. Those are our trade pieces. Right now, Thabeet and Miller are nothing but expiring contracts. Budinger is the solid 2 year vet that can score the ball and is on a minimum salary for a couple more seasons. He is good value in trade. Some team wanting to move a small forward on a larger salary would consider him a decent enough replacement if paired with an expiring or with Battier's TPE. Scola has good trade value for a playoff team looking to upgrade to contender status. Or possibly for a younger playoff team looking for leadership. Dude can play. But he is 30+ and is coming off minor knee surgery. Twill is a gamble for some lottery team looking to sell tickets and get fans out to the games. Some junk team going to the lottery could throw him out there and let him average 25/6/6 just playing helter skelter non-winning ball. Lee has great value with a contender. You could probably get some sort of bidding war going between Chicago and Orlando for him. So, what could we get for those guys????? Well, we could find a team looking to cut salary and shovel off some of our expirings. Miller/Thabeet for Kaman comes to mind. Clips might be all over that since it saves them a couple mill. Perhaps the Wiz would trade us Rashard and their #4 pick for Scola/Thabeet/Miller and we could take our pick of Kantor or Biyomba???? If we're not acquiring Chris Paul, DWill, DHoward, or some other superstar then look for some of these that I listed to be moved for upgrades at the 3 and 5 spots.
PatPat reminds me of a slightly shorter Dale Davis, with a better jumper. Or a Horace Grant. TWill actually projects a lot like a Rodney McCray (not that many folks around here know who the hell that is).
If yao has anything left, then it wouldn't make sense to deal him...With Yao, i think you either get basically what he was or something really bad, like being unable to run for very long, to the point where he can't even be a solid role guy.....there's really no middle ground with him. You can't say the injury will make him slow or leave him without vertical lift because he already lacked that. The injury won't make him shorter. He'll still be slow, with no vertical, and 7'5. The question is, when will he get hurt again? He could realistically continue to come back, get 20 and 10, get injured, get 20 and 10, get injured, and so on, for 2-4 years. If anyone wants to take a chance on him it'll be now. Later he'll be another year older and possibly closer to another injury. That's why i'd go for a sign and trade. If they keep Yao, Morey will keep looking for the same kind of deal he was looking for this season, like the deron deal. Probably will look for it even if they dont keep him. Sure, he'll be trying to get a high pick also, or a young guy with star potential, but he'll make calls to inquire about CP, iggy, etc.......it seems like everyone is getting ready for a twolves/clipper type of rebuilding, but i won't believe that until guys start getting shipped out.
patpat won't become a superstar until he develops his post moves as lethal as his 18f jumps. adelman showed resistance to use squid due to squid's play style. adelman's princeton offense can't have a player of squid type. Here is the definition of what princeton offense is. please don't make assumption i like squid. no, i don't like him at all. he hasn't shown me anything on the court so far with limited playing time.
Yeah, because we will need TWill and Thabeet to play to win so that they can develop in the most optimum way and allow us to assess them or increase their trade value. This is a excellent thread as it shows us the endgoal behind the hard (and painful) moves the team has to take. I'm on board, and I think our developmental years will be exciting for fans because we will be watching new faces and new styles. If Chuckie is willing to come back for a minimal raise, I believe he still has value for us. We know how to use him best. He can stop the centers that our new young center would have difficulty with--people like Amare, Griffin, Jefferson, etc. If opponents discover how to score against him, and he's not effective anymore, I would still want to retain him to coach.
What I meant in the beginning of my previous post is I agree we can't say we're tanking because we need our new young guys to play to win.
Dale Davis? he was a stiff.. . . a defensive presense but a Stiff. [He played with another Davis that was pretty good. . the name alludes me now] I will go with Horace Grant. I think he will be better though. He has a great shot and seems to be more willing to mix it up. To Do for PATPAT is: 1. More post moves 2. Learn to Pass better. Rocket River
