But if I started the season and told you at the start of the season you would play 5 games against Top 20 teams on the road, including the #4 and #6 in the country, the defending ACC champions you wouldn't fear that? All I'm saying is hind sight is 20-20 in that respect.
Air Force is better then West Virginia and WVU gave Miami trouble. But again you're mocking Notre Dame for beating Florida State in one breath, then you turn around and talk about how impressive it is for Miami to play Florida, Tennessee and that same Florida State team. I don't care what the margins is, a win is a win. And if you're going to keep harping on the preseason season as I said, you can mock Maryland all you want, but they were coming off a season they beat out Florida State for the ACC title, and they were a Top 20 team. They aren't now, but as you keep mentioning it was the Top 10 <b>preseason</b> rankings. It doesn't matter who beat who and how high they were ranked in the preseason poll. You're talking about a poll that had Nebraska, Florida, Colorado, and Florida State in them so how relevant are they now? By the way, this is how silly the preseason poll debate is. If you go by the preseason poll, Miami will be playing a Virginia Tech team that started the season ranked #16 in the AP poll.
Um no, Air Force is not better than West Virginia. You are fooling yourself if you believe that. I know for damn sure that West Virginia would not lose to Wyoming. Oh, and yeah, it is a lot "tougher" to play 5 games against teams that are ranked #20, #19, #18, #17, and #16 than to play games against teams that are ranked like #8, #5, and #3! Because after all, that one team played 5 top 20 teams! Or as keeley would say "rofl!" I only brought up schedules because keeley "felt" that I was implying Miami had a tougher schedule than ND. And as Major pointed out, many people looking at ND's schedule are not going to be impressed with them playing teams that are ranked near the bottom of the top 20 where other teams are playing 3 games against teams ranked in the top 10. But this argument is not going anywhere, but I will get back to this one: Notre Dame has not played the toughest schedule in the country. Consider Exhibit A, the Irish schedule of opponents that they have played so far along with their record: Maryland 6-2 Purdue 4-5 Michigan 6-2 Michigan State 3-5 Stanford 2-5 (where in the world did you read that Stanford was supposed to be good this year?? ROTFLMFAO on that one!) Pitt 6-2 Air Force 6-2 Florida State 5-3 Combined record is 38-26 for a winning percentage of .594 That is good but not as good as this, Exhibit B, the schedule for USC (so far): Auburn 5-3 Colorado 6-2 Kansas State 6-2 Oregon State 5-3 Washington State 7-1 California 5-4 Washington 4-4 Oregon 6-2 Combined record is 43-21 for a winning percentage of .672 Hmmm..., not a single team with a losing record among that list. So, yeah, I say that Notre Dame having the "toughest" schedule in the country is really a defendable argument!
Aw, come on keeley. Don't be like that. I can't help if it the Media said yet ANOTHER false thing about Notre Dame. And normally I don't take things too seriously around here except college football, which is a passion of mine and one that I have followed for the last 20 years.
If Air Force wasn't better then West Virginia, they wouldn't be ranked and WVU would be ranked. I don't care if Air Force lost, they're ranked, and WVU never was ranked, so how is a ranked team worse then an unranked team!? And Stanford was supposed to be good, Willingham was coaching them and supposedly left some talent on that team so roll on the floor and laugh about that. What, do you think Notre Dame took a coach who had so little talent that he would leave Stanford with a 2-6 team? And for crying out loud STOP comparing Notre Dame's schedule with your Miami Hurricanes. Hell yeah Miami should have a better schedule, they're the national champions and it's easier for them to schedule games. What, you think that teams would back off playing a nationally televised game against the defending champions? The bottom line is that Notre Dame has the toughest schedule in the BCS ranking. I could care less about the BCS rankings because I think the entire thing is garbage. And you can compare Exhibit A And Exhibit B because last I checked USC was ranked 10 spots below Notre Dame. And compare Florida State's schedule with Notre Dames, they're probably similar yet Notre Dame went into their building and pounded them. I never said Notre Dame has the toughest schedule, who really knows who has the toughest schedule. But you spent the time ripping Notre Dame's schedule apart which is really silly because when you play and beat 5 ranked teams that's impressive. I don't care if they're ranked #20, #21, #22, #23, and #24 ranked teams are ranked teams and that is as impressive as hell to go on the road and beat those team, especially since every last one of them have different styles. Will Notre Dame win the national title? Who knows, the BCS is crap anyway so who knows who'll be in the game. I don't care where you're ranked, if you're ranked and a team beats you it's impressive. Unless it's a preseason ranking, and it doesn't mean jack.
No one should care what the BCS says, the top 3 teams in college football are Miami, Oklahoma, and Virginia Tech. Two of them will be playing in the Fiesta Bowl.
I am an old-time FSU fan, so therefore biased, but I'd still like to make a coupla points... 1) Coming off of a game where they pretty much out-played the top team in the country on the road, and lost on another wide kick, which pretty much eliminated any Championship aspirations, I think FSU was primed for a serious letdown. Never mind all the hype in the media, their season effectively ended last week, and when you have one team playing for a possible Championship run versus another who's just barely but effectively lost their chance, you often see this kind of result. Take one look at the number of dropped passes... 2) About Notre Dame and their coach...Better than I expected, but not great. Anyone who actually watched the game will remember that FSU could have taken this game over had their WR's not dropped soooo many passes, and many of them were potential TD's or long gainers...I can't credit the ND defense for instilling 'fear of footsteps' here either, because many were wide open, and just plain dropped. ND's game plan: 8 guys in the box, stop FSU's ground game, force a sophomore QB to beat you...and he did, but his guys kept dropping the damn ball. Gameplan worked, so credit is due, but it was more a result of FSU shooting themselves in the foot than being outplayed. Well coached ND squad though, I'll say that. 3) Manny...Not to nit-pick, but FSU hasn't gone on a 13-7 stretch in over 15 years...Interesting point, though. I will defend Bowden by saying that football has shown this pattern to be true: when you are successfull, like the Seminoles or the 49ers or the...ugh...Cowboys, you will face a brain-drain, which will inevitably have a negative effect on your team. This is more true in football than any other sport because of the degree to which a head coach is more of an overseer, and delegation is his primary role. I would suggest that, over a long period of time,Bowden has shown a greater ability to overcome that brain drain than any other coach in the nation.
And here's the irony of all ironies Manny, you just got done pounding Notre Dame for not beating a currently ranked Top 10 or Top 5 team this year but neither has Miami. There best wins came against Florida and Florida State. What does that mean? Nothing. Because those are still impressive wins. Miami is 2-0 against ranked team, Notre Dame is 4-0 so how can you rip their schedule? I don't know if Florida is still ranked, so right now Florida State is their highest ranked win. Notre Dame's currently highest ranked win is against #8 Michigan which tells me Notre Dame's schedule isn't as overrated as you claim. And West Virginia doesn't lose to Wyoming, they only get pounded in their building by that Maryland team you mocked 48-17.
But if I started the season and told you at the start of the season you would play 5 games against Top 20 teams on the road, including the #4 and #6 in the country, the defending ACC champions you wouldn't fear that? All I'm saying is hind sight is 20-20 in that respect. I agree with that - but hindsight is what the BCS polls look at and how the computers determine Strength of Schedule. They don't care what the preseason polls look like. If you schedule Florida, Tennessee, Miami, OU, Texas, Nebraska, Ohio State, and VaTech, that's a GREAT preseason schedule. If those teams combine to go 0-88, that's NOT a strong real schedule. I find it odd that the BCS feels Notre Dame has such a great REAL schedule. I'm not saying they didn't try to have a great schedule - I'm just looking at the results, which is what the BCS and computers use to determine strength of schedule. Given how it's shaken out, I think ISU, for example, should be given more tough schedule points than Notre Dame. I think Notre Dame is certainly up there, but I think there are teams out there with better schedules. The difference is that I think a schedule with 5 super-teams and 5 scrubs is more difficult than a schedule with 10 middle-of-the-road teams. The BCS (and probably many other people) disagrees with me. Miami, in my opinion, is in the same position. They made a great schedule, but it didn't work out that way because Fla, FlaSt, and Tenn are all having whack down years. They don't rank in the best-schedules meter to me either.
The problem is, (and the reason I hate the BCS) is that Notre Dame is ranked ahead of Virginia Tech. So it's possible that Virginia Tech could be ranked ahead of Notre Dame (assuming they beat Miami), and Notre Dame could be in the Fiesta Bowl. I don't know about the toughest schedules, because you can't really tell who has the toughest schedule in the country since things change from week-to-week with upsets and all, but when you have the potential for 4 or 5 undefeated teams, and no playoff system you're asking for trouble. I'm praying that 3 teams make it to the bowls with an undefeated record (3 Top ranked teams), just so I can laugh while they justify screwing a team because that team played a team with a 4-7 record while the team they beat out played a team wit ha 3-8 record.
I agree, that's why I hate the BCS and wish they had a playoff system. Schedules become less of an issue in that case. It's still there, but less of an issue. I agree with the ISU case because they have played a brutal schedule and have kind of been punished for it. I know Oklahoma just pounded them, but I don't think they should have dropped as far as they did because of the teams they played. Truthfully there isn't a team that has played a super tough schedule in the Top 5 right now. Good schedules but not great, and there probably won't be for awhile considering so many top programs like Florida, Nebraska and Florida State have been having down years while other schools rise out of the blue and become powers again like Oklahoma, Miami, Texas Notre Dame. It's impossible to gauge a schedule properly.
Sorry I don't have a link but according to Kirk Herbstreit here on local radio, that the ESPN computer Gurus had been running scenarios for the BCS. The synopsis is only 2 teams control their own destiny: Oklahoma and Miami. He seemed to discount Notre Dame by saying their upcoming schedule is week and will hurt them. He also said OSU should have an advantage (schedule) over GA. He never really said how OSU stacked up vs. ND. Again I hat eh BCS, so I would love to have 4 or 5 undefeated teams, espcially if 2 top tier programs get screwed out of a championship (pick Ok, Miami, Notre Dame or OSU) that could hopefully spped up aplayoff system. Strange but I still think the thing will work itself out by the end with only 2 undefeated teams left.
It's obvious you have a personal hatred for Notre Dame. I don't see anything false at all. You said it yourself that it is debatable, meaning that it is also possible that Notre Dame might have the best schedule in the country. Then again maybe they don't. Who knows. Why obsess over Notre Dame's schedule when they've proven their a legit national title contender? Besides, I think by the end of the season the undefeated teams will be Oklahoma, Miami, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Georgia. Good luck straightening out that mess BCS! LOL!
SCREW IT . . . GET A PLAYOFF SYSTEM!!! Rocket River Willingham . .. will he be Coach of the year anyone else EVEN CLOSE??
Bob Stoops is a better coach. He just doesn't have the Notre Dame NBC media machine behind him. OU has a tougher schedule than Notre Dame, and I think Notre Dame may run into difficulty versus USC to end the season. Bob Stoops has completely resurrected that program and has maintained a high level. Willingham can't be compared to him after only 8 games at ND.
Rocks, A couple of things: 1) I have moved on about talking about Miami's schedule about 3 or 4 posts ago 2) The reason I showed ND's schedule and opponents and compared it to USC's, is this talk about Notre Dame having the toughest schedule in the country. Also, guess what? USC was ranked in the last BCS rankings as #14. As Major said, it is a mystery of why the BCS feels that ND has the toughest schedule. I am betting that ND will not be ranked #1 in terms of toughest schedule after this week, especially with Air Force losing to Wyoming (another thing that SOS does is factors in the opponents' opponents). Showing that was done not for your sake or keeley's but to show how ridiculous it is for the BCS to say that ND has the toughest schedule in the country (and that is what has really led me to have about 7 or 8 posts in this thread). 3) Maybe Willingham left Stanford because he knew he could not compete every year there like he could at Notre Dame. I have said on numerous times, that he is a great coach and the fact that he led Stanford to the Rose Bowl is proof of that. However, he is not stupid. He knows that ND is considered a plum job and there exists a greater possibility of winning consistently there then Stanford. If you think that Stanford is going to be a perennial powerhouse in the Pac-10, then you are fooling yourself (again). 4) I get the impression that since Air Force was ranked and West Virginia was not that you think that no ranked team should ever lose to an unranked team. Then what happened to Air Force yesterday or LSU? Do you think that Bowling Green could beat Texas A&M, BC, West Virginia, Auburn, or California? After all, they are ranked. You have to look at the 2 teams individually and not worry about the rankings. If Bowling Green was playing Auburn next week and BG is still ranked like #22 and Auburn was unranked, I guarantee you that the bookies in Vegas would have Auburn as an at least 10 point favorite.
Manny, just hold off a bit. If the BCS says ND has the toughest schedule after yesterday's results, then I would agree with you.
You guys are all forgetting the team that really has the most difficult schedule in the nation: North Carolina State, bay-bee! New Mexico, East Tennessee State, Navy, Wake Forrest, Texas Tech, Massachussetts, North Carolina, Duke, and Clemson! This team better not get screwed out of the national championship game if the end up undefeated or I'll be pissed!!!
Not until computers says so, if computers says so in the bcs (at least NYT ranking says so currently), then... Because computers use a consistent FORMULA to evaluate SOS. Computers are not smart enough like you to use pre-season ranking to support Miama and then use in-season rankings to support USC, in the meanwhile spanking ND both ways. Now you can argue all you want against a formula in favor of another, but your tally doesn't really mean you are right. Edit: And USC is a moot point since they are not undefeated, ...and ND and USC will play each other anyway.
