windandsea, You are correct. It is clearly a foul according to NBA rules. Chuck Nevitt, If your explanation satisfies you and you are happy when quick fouls are called on one of our players while others are allowed to foul then that is fine. I, however am not happy with that. This is not baseball and I do not agree with Jordan getting preferential treatment when he is already suppose to be the best player on the planet but yes it happens. As for an unwritten rule that is bogus and you know it. Either it is a foul or it is not a foul and Yao Ming was clearly fouled. There is nothing in the NBA rules that I can find that says the hand is an extension of the ball. If this is brought to the refs attentions then possibly they will begin to look for it.
If it is an official rule then it will be listed in the rules on the NBA sight. All I ask is that if you are going to argue the point then at least look for the rule. The link is in one of my previous posts. No where can I anywhere that the hand is an extension of the ball. My comment is not meant to say that refs should never make mistakes but that something should be pointed out to them about the way Yao Ming shoots the ball. It is almost impossible to block his shot while you're facing him with out fouling some part of his hand or fore arm. Any block like this should be scrutinized by the officials for a foul.
\ The problem is that Yao Ming is 7’6” tall. The way he holds the ball makes it almost impossible to block his shot from the front while it is still in his hand with out fouling him. The situation is further impacted when Yao Ming gets such quick whistles himself. All I am saying is that this should be pointed out to the officials so that they can keep an eye on it in the future. I am not saying that the ref should be fired or that he called a bad game or anything like that. But he clearly missed this particular call.
I've been playing with the understanding that "hand is part of the ball" for decades....I too just thought it was an understood rule.....I want all my fouls back now!!!!!
Yao Ming went up with some weak ass **** against a top 50 all time player and got his ass stuffed clean by "the prvailing" NBA rules. If Yao Ming had done that against Robinson and got called for the foul (he probably would have - rookie - another "prevailing NBA rule") you all would be screaming bloody murder. You don't have to point out anything to the Refs, they know what happened. Don't be so naive...
I think Crash was pointing out that Yao shoots differently than most, so if he's block from the front, there is a VERY good chance he got fouled because that's how he holds the ball. I don't think Robison shoots that way, so the foul wouldn't, or shouldn't be called on a Yao block of Robison.
If that was the case, then every player would shoot like Yao and nobody would get blocked. I'm a big fan of Yao Ming and the Rockets, but this isn't the second coming of Jesus. The NBA is not going to change the way it calls fouls and blocks just because he has good form and puts his hand on the ball. He was stammering around with that attempt and got his ass stuffed, simple as that. He even admitted it himself. Nobody at the time even questioned it, on both sides. Whining won't help. He showed he can get over his nervousness and get his shot off. I don't recall anyone blocking him since then...
Then consider me stuffing your weak ass post. Show me the rule you are talking about! http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList There is the link now consider your post rejected.
Kind of like you are stammering around in this thread and got your weak ass $hit stuffed. You have a link to the rules so show me. Of course you can't.
Sir Jackie Chiles, Please support your claim. The link to the rules have been posted. Find me the part that says the ball and the hand are the same thing. Can You? I doubt it.
It's an unwritten rule just like a bazillion others in the NBA. How many players turn over the ball or carry it when they cross over or dribble? No touching the other player? Shaq would foul out in 2 minutes. What about the superstar treatment? Grow up... don't be so naive...
So which NBA team do you play for? I'm not talking about play ground ball. I don't care what rules you go by on your play ground.
I really don't know if the way he shoots IS good form. He probably started out that way and worked on it. Plus, with his big hands, he can probably shoot that way, so not everyone can do it. BTW, I didn't see the play and the shot was probably a block, by what it sounds like, but Crash brought up the fact that if Yao is blocked in front, there is a better chance of a foul. I call would call anything a foul where the defender alters a shot by contact with the player's hand, wrist, arm, etc, instead of, or with the ball.
Authoritative Answer: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList Official Rules of the National Basketball Association Rule 12 - Fouls and Penalties B. Personal Foul Section I - Types a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an oppo-nent by extending a hand, forearm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a posi-tion that is not normal. Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately. b. Contact initiated by the defensive player guarding a player with the ball is not legal. This contact includes, but is not limited to, forearm, hands, or body check. EXCEPTIONS: (1) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball who has his back to the basket below the free throw line extend-ed outside the Lower Defensive Box. (2) A defender may apply contact with a forearm and/or one hand with a bent elbow to an offensive player in a post-up position with the ball in the Lower Defensive Box. (3) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball at any time in the Lower Defensive Box. The forearm in the above exceptions is solely for the purpose of main-taining a defensive position. (4) A defender may position his leg between the legs of an offensive player in a post-up position in the Lower Defensive Box for the purpose of main-taining defensive position. If his foot leaves the floor in an attempt to dis-lodge his opponent, it is a foul immediately. (5) Incidental contact with the hand against an offensive player shall be ignored if it does not affect the player's speed, quickness, balance and/or rhythm. c. Any player whose actions against an opponent cause illegal contact with yet another opponent has committed the personal foul. d. A personal foul committed by the offensive team during a throw-in shall be an offensive foul, regardless of whether the ball has been released. e. Contact which occurs on the hand of the offensive player, while that hand is in contact with the ball, is legal. EXCEPTION: Flagrant, elbow and punching fouls. Let's try not to get too set in our arguments over what are or are not in the rules without actually looking at them closely. The old saying that "The hand is part of the ball" appears to be correct under the current rules.
How many times have we seen Steve get called for turning the ball over? A ton! Do me a favor and show me where I can find a list of the unwritten rules and please make it accurate. The written rules apparently do not support your argument but that does not surprise me. You seldom argue anything with facts on your side. For once at least bring something semi official to back up your argument.
bwarren, thinks. I was wrong. Don't know how I missed it but at least you found it in the link unlike ricerocket who refused to look and claimed that it was an unwritten rule.
