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Rose's case for MVP?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by t_mac1, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    What are you even trying to show, that Rose puts up consistent numbers in all of Bull's games?
     
  2. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Yeah that was a terrible point to make.
     
  3. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    are you serious that you can't even comprehend the stats i put up?

    1) rose's production doesn't really change whether the bulls win or lose. usually if people say that player is what makes that team goes, you would think if he sucks, the team sucks.
    2) rose's efficiency has been absolutely terrible in the bulls' best month (they have gone 9-2 this month).

    so people's logic basically is rose IS the bulls. he's their everything. so that should mean if rose struggles badly, the bulls lose. however, that is not the case. rose has struggled this entire month, and the bulls have not struggled one single bit (hell they have not been in many close games).

    so again, what has enabled the bulls to do that? DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING.
     
  4. noize

    noize Contributing Member

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    The thing that is so amazing about Rose is that he's only 23 yrs old and with the work ethic and commitment that he has...he's only going to get better.

    I didn't realized Rose was such a good dunker in his high school days. Is it just me but Rose does not look 6"4 to me, more like 5"9-6"1. How the heck does he jump so high... THe last dunk in the vid he looked to be 5"6. LOl
    <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OtZd2koUMrk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    #184 noize, Mar 22, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  5. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    more eye-popping stats for you guys

    2656 minutes, +525 LeBron on the court (+9.49 per 48 minutes)
    772 minutes, -21 LeBron on the bench (-1.31 per 48 minutes)
    Net +/- is +10.80

    2598 minutes, +413 Dwight on the court (+7.63 per 48 minutes)
    878 minutes, -13 Dwight on the bench (-0.71 per 48 minutes)
    Net +/- is +8.34

    2582 minutes, +418 Rose on the court (+7.77 per 48 minutes)
    808 minutes, +103 Rose on the bench (+6.12 per 48 minutes)
    Net +/- is +1.65

    so with rose on the bench, the bulls are an eye-popping +6.12 points per 42 minutes. that is UNHEARD of for a team that everyone says is completely dependent on rose. that's just ridiculous.

    but yes, all you guys keep saying: rose is their everything. without rose, the bulls would be a lottery team and probably can't win a game.
     
  6. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

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    They won't be a lottery team, because east is so bad that 35 wins are enough to make playoff.

    But without Rose, they won't make .500 this year, easily a lottery team in west. Think about it, they won 41 games last year. Replace Rose for Boozer, and take Boozer/Noah out for a few months, where will they end up?


     
  7. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    that's all hypotheticals. just like many thought the cavs would still be a decent team without lebron. or if tmac and yao were healthy, how would the rockets fare?

    we don't know until it happens. the facts state that the bulls do well when rose is NOT on the floor and has a POSITIVE net also.

    that basically just contradicts what everyone is saying why rose should be MVP: the bulls can't do anything without him. plus, many in the media believe the bulls would absolutely SUCK without rose (especially bull homer michael wilbon). so no, the reason many people are giving rose the MVP is for that reason: the bulls would absolutely suck without rose. that's their main premise.

    facts state differently. that's all i'm saying.
     
  8. clippy

    clippy Member

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    t_mac1: your numbers and argument are really to state that LeBron is a better player than Rose, which I (and probably most unbiased basketball fans) agree with. However, MVP is not the "best player" award. It is basically just the award for the best player on the best team, with the caveat that he has to stand well above the second-best player on that team. Even though the Bulls success is largely due to their system, Rose meets all the criteria. LeBron doesn't because Wade is so good. And the fact that the Bulls have a better record than the Heat also hurt his case.

    I'd have no problem with Rose, Dirk, or LeBron getting the MVP. I think Rose will get it if the standing stay the same.
     
  9. rju1986

    rju1986 Member

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    Like what Atlanta chanted @home, "MVP, MVP.."
     
  10. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    no these numbers i'm bringing up are not to say who is the best player in the L. i'm just baffled at what the media is saying about how the bulls would absolutely suck without rose and these numbers contradict everything they say.

    i mean, if the numbers say the bulls suck without rose, i would have no qualms about giving him the MVP since that's the argument everyone is making for rose. b/c his #s are definitely not top 5 in this L.

    i mean, i rarely hear people in the media or on this board give the other bulls' credit (b/c they CAN PLAY without rose). they are winning b/c of their defense and rebounding.

    PS - i had lebron #1 before his pathetic clutch debacle. after that, he should not deserve it. i have him at #4 right now after howard, dirk, and rose.
    actually, the chants were louder for kobe and lebron, and that was with a sold-out atlanta crowd. the bulls did not draw a sell out crowd.
     
  11. clippy

    clippy Member

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    Yeah, but the media (both promoting and voting for the MVP) doesn't look at advanced stats. The MVP is an award of perception-- if they really wanted the award to mean best player, they would just use the old IBM award or go by PER or something. But LeBron would win it every year (as would Shaq in the previous era).

    The problem with individual awards in team sports is that there are way too many variables. If you want to go by the +/-, I'm pretty sure Howard is your MVP.
     
  12. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

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    Rose plays lots of minutes. And bench play bench. That Bulls' bench are better than average in the league doesn't imply they are better than the average starters in the league. And chances are they'll fare much worse without Rose.


     
  13. Pull_Up_3

    Pull_Up_3 Member

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    Worst thread of 2011
     
  14. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

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    Since when best PER = best player?
    Best player of the year shouldn't lose to underdog in playoff.

     
  15. Pull_Up_3

    Pull_Up_3 Member

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    Rose will be MVP thread is dumb just another lebron nuthugger
     
  16. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    nice argument you post for why rose is the MVP there. good job.
     
  17. YaoZow

    YaoZow Member

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    The Bulls are the most surprising team in the NBA, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought they would be #1 in the East.

    I'm not a Rose fan but he deserves MVP.
     
  18. thebender

    thebender Member

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    Rose has my vote.

    Note - this does not actually count towards anything.
     
  19. jman255

    jman255 Member

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    Woohoo it feels good to be living in Chicago with the bulls playing this well! Rose will get MVP, guaranteed. He has donated $100 for every point scored to Japan for 2 games straight...and he scores a lot.
     
  20. noize

    noize Contributing Member

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    Floyed Mayweather on a recent 41K bet...

    "My boy Drose will always get you paid".
     

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