1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Three things about Islam you may not know

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Commodore, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    33,579
    Likes Received:
    17,554
    <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ib9rofXQl6w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    1. The Koran is to be taken literally as commands from God. Any contradictions found in the Koran are resolved by abrogating the earlier written passage and replacing it with the later writing.

    2. Islam is a religious ideology and it is every Muslim's religious duty to impose Sharia law on all people, as commanded in the Koran. Pluralism and democracy are not compatible with Islam.

    3. It is every Muslim's duty to lie and decieve non-Muslims in the cause of advancing Islam and imposing Sharia.
     
  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575
    So, in light of these "facts," what do you propose we do with the 1.5 billion Muslims on Earth?
     
  3. Hou_rox

    Hou_rox Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    44
    Not sure if serious.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Preston27

    Preston27 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,706
    Likes Received:
    42
    Looks like what you'd see in a chain email.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    33,579
    Likes Received:
    17,554
    I would say do everything you can to diminish and discredit Islam as an ideology.

    Unfortunately, anyone who is effective at that would have their head cut off.
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,241
    I would say you should find another hobby.
     
  7. GlenRice

    GlenRice Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,990
    Likes Received:
    239
    I doubt 3 million Muslims living in America care if they are not living in sharia justice system and have a goal to spread it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575
    What specific action do you propose to be taken to "diminish and discredit Islam as an ideology"? By posting the youtube video you linked to on a basketball forum or is there something else to be done?

    How successful do you think your proposal will be at thinning out the ranks of the 1.5 billion Muslims?
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    33,579
    Likes Received:
    17,554
    I have disdain for all relgion, it's anti-reason.

    But Islam is the one that happens to concern me the most.

    I don't pretend there is much that can be done, religious fanatacism is largely immune to reason. I will say that social media has opened up potential new avenues to undermining religious ideologies on a large scale.

    Anyone can produce a viral video. If the message is powerful enough (not saying this video is such a message), maybe it will spread.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. thadeus

    thadeus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,313
    Likes Received:
    726
    So is the "free market" ideology.
     
  11. sammy

    sammy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    18,949
    Likes Received:
    3,528
    What a stupid thread. Kudos for coming off as completely ignorant.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. ryano2009

    ryano2009 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,889
    Likes Received:
    5,401

    It's pretty obvious you don't know anything about Islam, and your post makes it very clear that you are very ignorant than Knowledgeable person.
     
  13. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    33,579
    Likes Received:
    17,554
    How so?
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    what? everybody who watches fox news already knows this.
     
  15. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,129
    Likes Received:
    22,599
    There are many many things I hate about Islam and religion in general, which I've discussed many times.

    But those 3 things are specifically false.

    1) It's not only time that abrogates according to mainstream Islamic jurisprudence. On top of that, outside of mainstream jurisprudence, nothing abrogates something else.

    2) There is no express command to impose Sharia on all people. The QUran does not even recognize the word "country". There is a command on Muslims to champion what they consider the best values (for them, by default, Islamic values). So for example, a Muslim can run for president in a secular democracy promoting Islamic values. If he/she loses, he/she has still fulfilled his/her duty and is under no obligation to impose their will on others. They are only accountable for the intent and effort. Not for the final result.

    This is confirmed with the following verses:

    I could go on forever really.

    3) We've already determined that imposition is forbidden in Islam. As for lying for advancement of Islam, that's not in the Quran as your youtube guy insinuates lol. I imagine that's why he's failed to provide a source.

    The word Taqiyya specifically is for shiite Muslims only.


    As I said, there are humongous problems in Islam. Huge, dangerous elements. But these 3 things are lies, and that video is really a waste of everyone's time if they are trying to find out about the core of Islam's problems which need resolution.

    For me, I love discussing the problems of Islam with people in an effort to weed them out. But when I discover someone like you or the youtube guy, I figure out that they are probably obstacles in the way of solving real Islamic problems. If you are sincere in that you are concerned about the impact of Islamic traditions on the rest of the world, then do some proper research and come up with concrete ways to solve these issues.

    If you are just propogating unverified youtube videos that make negative things up about Islam, then how can anyone believe your sincerity? You are pushing people off the right track to satisfy your own irrational fears.

    You're no different than the misinformed Muslims who say the world would be peaceful if they imposed shariah on everyone by force. You are also an extremist, but on the opposite side. You are also misinformed. You are also engaging in Taqiyyah. You are also imposing your will through misinformation on others. You are also going to abrogate parts of your ideology, whatever it is, when you discover you've been trumpeting lies out of sheer carelessness.
     
    4 people like this.
  16. sammy

    sammy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    18,949
    Likes Received:
    3,528
    Taqiyya simply means you can conceal your faith when persecuted or under threat. It's when one is faced with a life or death situation. Since, Shia Muslims have always been persecuted, it's easy to see why this principle is incorporated within the sect. Even then, Taqiyya is not mandatory and was used to counter the constant oppression during the times of the Umayyad and Abassid regimes.. Not against non-Muslims.
     
    #16 sammy, Feb 14, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  17. ryano2009

    ryano2009 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,889
    Likes Received:
    5,401
    How do you know these facts are true, you didn't provide any sources neither did the uploader of the video, otherwise they are irrelevant.
     
  18. Nolen

    Nolen Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Mathloon- excellent post, thank you for writing that.
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,282
    I found this part interesting.

    So when a (devout) Muslim runs for any office - unless he doesn't follow the commands of his faith - his main intent is to promote Islamic values (over the values of the constitution, and including the shariah), no matter what he says to the contrary?

    You write "if he/she loses...(he/she) is under no obligation to impose their will (promoting Islamic values) on others". What if he/she wins? Then that obligation exists?
     
  20. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,218
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    You obviously have not watched American political campaigns if you're going to argue about this. Maybe it's a German thing, since you guys do things differently there.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now