It's Still Racism: WSJ's "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior"

OK I'll play. We'll take an 18 year old, and suppose his answer is, "I don't want to do anything (happens way too often for my liking)," what do you do? Or what if it's the standard teen answer is "I don't know (happens even more frequently)." Then what?

We all have interests. When I was young I dreamt of being a historian. It was my calling. Now it's a very good hobby. In fact, I just spent 8 hours on Wednesday to read up the war in the Pacific. Interesting stuff. Got 1 hour of sleep that night. NOT A CAREER. Why not? It's really simple. Probabilistically, it wouldn't become one. A career is not about interests. It's about making a living and to a lesser extent, personal achievements.

The other thing I found disturbing is on one hand, you acknowledge that some 18 year old (an adult mind you) has no clue about his career plans. Then on the other hand you argue we shouldn't be guided towards the successful career tracks, probabilistically. Am I sensing an inherent contradiction? Assuming that an 18 year old is property parented (I know, probably not a word) and properly mentored, why shouldn't he already know what he wants to do? He'll make decisions at 18 that impacts the rest of his life and we're not supposed to tell him what's in his best interest?

Finally, I'd like to note the education system in America in the 60's. In the 60's, the American household had authoritative parents. In the 60's, the American school had authoritative teachers. In other words, it WAS the Chinese system, but less extreme.

Back then the American education system was among the best in the world. Then came the hippies. Instead of receiving personal attention through personal success, it became individualism/personal attention through whatever pathetic means possible. The American education since the 60's? Well, it's pretty obvious isn't it?

Bottom line, I can't tell you how to be happy. If you're happy with your station, more power for you. But that's because I don't know you, don't particularly care (though of course, I wish no ill will upon you) and quite frankly, am not responsible for you.

The parents? That's a different matter.

 

try having a Greek-Armenian mother:
i never knew whether to party or study

 

Well, five days after the initial excerpts of the book were taken out of the context, WSJ eventually let Chua respond to the readers in a followup article.

"My actual book is not a how-to guide; it’s a memoir, the story of our family’s journey in two cultures, and my own eventual transformation as a mother. Much of the book is about my decision to retreat from the strict “Chinese” approach, after my younger daughter rebelled at 13," Chua further noted, "I don’t believe, by the way, that Chinese parenting is superior—a splashy headline, but I didn’t choose it ... much of my book is tongue-in-cheek, making fun of myself."

http://blogs.wsj.com/ideas-market/2011/01/13/the-tiger-mother-responds-to-readers/

 

Would hit


I like the last sentence at the end of that blog.

 

I read a little bit about Albert Einstein, and the reason he became a genuis like today was because he didn't give a damn about the teachers and and what they taught him. His parents were not forcing him to succeed in school either. If they had been super strict on him, we may not have the Einstein of today.

 

While there's always exceptions of kids who went the distance without encouragement, that same model cannot be used for the education system of a capitalist country with desires of unipolar hegemony.

Strict discipline, obedience, and focus on education till a certain age are qualities American parents should reinstill like in the early to mid 20th century.

Friends of mine who've grown up to become professors are strict about how much their kids study, how much TV and what kind of channels they watch, etc. People they meet are surprised at the 'non-hippie' way they raise their kids.

I knew a mother who was very hands off with her kids, and today almost all of them flunked out of schools, are obese, and working dead on jobs. She always thought her kids would grow up without any guidance..

"We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

 

From what I know of Asian parents, they expect children to not do the best they can, but to be the best.

I have met many Asian guys who started college as pre-meds, talking about medical schools and what doctor they wanted to be. The following year they dropped like flies, going into something easier like accounting. This happened because they were expected to become doctors by their parents. It's sad because these guys could have studied something easier, obtained a degree in which their GPA doesn't take a hit, and land a job post-college. Instead, they screw their GPA up doing pre-med or wasting time repeating classes which they deemed they did not get high enough grades. So sad.

What Asian parents are confused is that maybe, just maybe, their kids are not as smart as they thought.

 

It takes a certain maturity for any parent to admit this, unfortunately.

 

The misconceptions people have in this thread are amusing. If I didn't know better, they are projecting.

 

Not all kids are the same, and as a parent, I think one of your main jobs is KNOWING your child. Once you know who they are, you should be able to help guide them by tweaking the discipline/freedom switch.

One of the biggest problems is money. If you are the kind of person who is happy to make lots of money, then it is very difficult for you to understand a person who does not value money as much as you do.

I'm just throwing out ideas, I've never raised anyone.

 

Wnes pointed out that to a Amy Chua recognizes that sort of gamesmanship is bad. The WSJ article is misleading about exactly what Chua wrote about.

 

Thats an important issue and one that has affected Asians not just here in the US but also in Japan, SK, and Taiwan that the pressure to succeed and the regimentation of their upbringing has driven many to commit suicide. I recall reading a few years back that things were so bad in Japan that many dorms were designed with grates above entrances and walkways so that people down below might not get hit by people killing themselves from jumping out of windows.

 

I'm Irish American...so my kids are constantly drunk and sober up just enough to attend church and boxing matches.

 

Do they have pet leprechauns?

 

Have they reserved the spot in the police academy yet?

 

Except though if someone is working to fulfill their personal interests and personal achievements then they are more likely to work harder at it and find ways to advance themselves and the fields. Following the Einstein example, Einstein had a career as a customs agent in his 20's where he was making a decent living but if he had just relegated physics as a hobby we might not have had the theories of Relativity.

Dealing with college students quite often I can tell you that a lot of 18 year olds with very good upbringings are still deciding what they want to do in life. Many kids come to college not having declared a major and many change their major through college. I don't see this as a reflection on poor parenting only that it sometimes takes a while to find out where your aptitude lies.

That's ignoring though a lot of issues such as problems with school funding, the challenges of integrating schools and etc. that also have arisen since the 1960's. As for criticizing those hippies consider that since the 1960's that some of the most inventive and creative technology has come from places where the Counter Culture of the 60's was the strongest. Its no accident that Silicon Valley is relatively close to San Francisco as that individualistic attitude also applied to a willingness to experiment and take risk in many fields. Many of the people who have pioneered the PC and Internet revolution were not products of strict regimented education and upbringing but individualistic misfits, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Larry Page and now Mark Zuckerberg for example.

There are good things to a strict and more regiment upbringing and education system but individualism is very important towards creating a whole person as well as a dynamic society. What is needed is to find the right balance.

 

You need to force them to dance without moving their upper bodies too.

 

i have a story about this i'll share some other time...maybe by email since no one else will care.

 

I would love to hear it. I have a good friend who teaches Irish dance. Would you mind if I shared it with her?

 

I don't mean to target you specifically for this, but every time I or anyone else raise the point of needing hard work, invariably someone will raise the points like Einstein was... Bill Gates dropped out of college... Michael Dell never went, etc, etc, etc. Here's the problem, even if you are Einstein, there is no indication for your parents to know at an early stage. And of course, chances are, you're not. Life is always about playing into the probabilities. Usually when you don't, it ends disastrously. Proponents of doing your calling NEVER mention the 99% of the time that the supposed Bill Gates fail. I think that's unfortunate.

As I've mentioned before to Kojirou, the idea is not to be forced into strict disciplines as supposed to be prepared. If you decided all you want is to become Al Bundy, shoe salesman, how difficult do you think it will be to switch to. On the other hand, how much harder will it be to switch into Medicinie, Engineering, Finance, etc? Make no mistake about it, when your 18 year old do decide it's time to switch into those fields, he will already have been left behind. Skills like math, sciences, reading, etc are universal and required for virtually every high paying job. Sadly, you have no idea how often I hear the phrase "what will you ever need math for after you graduate," even more sadly, often from the parents as supposed to the children.

By all indications, school funding went up, not down, since the 60's.

I'm also so very glad you mentioned those list of individuals, because if you haven't, I would have. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard. Larry Page went to Michigan and Stanford. Sergey Brin went to Maryland and Stanford. Mark Zuckerberg went to Harvard. Larry Ellison dropped out of Chicago and Illinois at Urbana.

Shall we extend it back even further? Bill Gates went to Lakeside (an exclusive prep school). Larry Page went to East Lansing HS (US News Silver Medal in Best High Schools 2008, 2009 and 2010) and Okemos Montessori School. Sergey Brin attended Paint Branch Montessori School and I quote, "his father, a professor in the department of mathematics at the University of Maryland, nurtured his interest in mathematics." Mark Zuckerberg went to Phillips Exeter Academy and apparently learns Chinese every day. Steve Jobs frequently attended after-school lectures at HP in Palo Alto.

All of those gentlemen showed strong discipline, drive and focus on education very early on. Each and every one of them (except maybe Jobs) attended very prestigious schools at both an early level and college (which guess what, necessitates good grades). I think it's rather misleading for you to focus on their "60's era individualism" at the key to their success.